ATP ICAO Restriction
04-05-2013 | 04:10 PM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
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at the end, if that's how it was intended....
04-05-2013 | 08:30 PM
#12
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Joined: Nov 2011
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From: Depends on the day
ATP ICAO Restriction
This is one of the most confusing rules that depends on how it is interpreted. I'm an APD at a 121 carrier. When doing this certification under our program it was understood as 1200 initially with PIC + 1/2 SIC. This was incorrect as it had to do with helicopters. It then went to the PIC + 1/2 SIC= 1500. This then was changed to being read as as long as the governing body (FAA...I believe) determines you can use all of your SIC + PIC to meet the 1500 requirement then you don't need the restriction. This is now how we do it under our program...until it changes.
04-05-2013 | 08:51 PM
#13
Thread Starter
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I just looked up the ICAO flight experience requirements and I dont see anything anywhere about 1200 hrs PIC or PIC/SIC combined. Does anyone know where that came from? This is what it said:
2.5.1.3
Experience
2.5.1.3.1 The applicant shall have completed not less than
1 500 hours of flight time as a pilot of aeroplanes. The
Licensing Authority shall determine whether experience as
a pilot under instruction in a synthetic flight trainer, which it
has approved, is acceptable as part of the total flight time of
1 500 hours. Credit for such experience shall be limited to a
maximum of 100 hours, of which not more than 25 hours shall
have been acquired in a flight procedure trainer or a basic
instrument flight trainer.
2.5.1.3.1.1 The applicant shall have completed in aeroplanes
not less than:
a) 250 hours, either as pilot-in-command, or made up by
not less than 100 hours as pilot-in-command and the
necessary additional flight time as co-pilot performing,
under the supervision of the pilot-in-command, the
duties and functions of a pilot-in-command, provided
that the method of supervision employed is acceptable
to the Licensing Authority;
b) 200 hours of cross-country flight time, of which not
less than 100 hours shall be as pilot-in-command or as
co-pilot performing, under the supervision of the pilotin-
command, the duties and functions of a pilot-incommand,
provided that the method of supervision
employed is acceptable to the Licensing Authority;
c) 75 hours of instrument time, of which not more than
30 hours may be instrument ground time; and
d) 100 hours of night flight as pilot-in-command or as copilot1 500 hours of flight time as a pilot of aeroplanes. The
Licensing Authority shall determine whether experience as
a pilot under instruction in a synthetic flight trainer, which it
has approved, is acceptable as part of the total flight time of
1 500 hours. Credit for such experience shall be limited to a
maximum of 100 hours, of which not more than 25 hours shall
have been acquired in a flight procedure trainer or a basic
instrument flight trainer.
2.5.1.3.1.1 The applicant shall have completed in aeroplanes
not less than:
a) 250 hours, either as pilot-in-command, or made up by
not less than 100 hours as pilot-in-command and the
necessary additional flight time as co-pilot performing,
under the supervision of the pilot-in-command, the
duties and functions of a pilot-in-command, provided
that the method of supervision employed is acceptable
to the Licensing Authority;
b) 200 hours of cross-country flight time, of which not
less than 100 hours shall be as pilot-in-command or as
co-pilot performing, under the supervision of the pilotin-
command, the duties and functions of a pilot-incommand,
provided that the method of supervision
employed is acceptable to the Licensing Authority;
c) 75 hours of instrument time, of which not more than
30 hours may be instrument ground time; and
04-06-2013 | 05:19 AM
#14
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 254
Likes: 2
This is one of the most confusing rules that depends on how it is interpreted. I'm an APD at a 121 carrier. When doing this certification under our program it was understood as 1200 initially with PIC + 1/2 SIC. This was incorrect as it had to do with helicopters. It then went to the PIC + 1/2 SIC= 1500. This then was changed to being read as as long as the governing body (FAA...I believe) determines you can use all of your SIC + PIC to meet the 1500 requirement then you don't need the restriction. This is now how we do it under our program...until it changes.
The 1200 was initially a helicopter requirement, then in 2009 changed to whatever Annex 1 required, which if you read it, states what Magro99 said above.
04-06-2013 | 07:23 AM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 406
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From: back in the right
We had some street hires on the dash back in the day with this issue. If the AGO is to act as captain, then you are limited to domestic only until you meet the pic requirements. If its the atp to comply with the new law, you are okay to act as an fo anywhere. Can someone confirm that there is a restriction placed on the certificate? Doesn't sound like the faa would care because it is an icao problem.
04-08-2013 | 04:12 AM
#18
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Joined: Oct 2007
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From: Sr. VP of button pushing
Doesn't anyone read the regs anymore?
61.159(d)
(d) An applicant is issued an airline transport pilot certificate with the limitation, “Holder does not meet the pilot in command aeronautical experience requirements of ICAO,’’ as prescribed under Article 39 of the Convention on International Civil Aviation, if the applicant does not meet the ICAO requirements contained in Annex 1 “Personnel Licensing’’ to the Convention on International Civil Aviation, but otherwise meets the aeronautical experience requirements of this section.
61.159(d)
(d) An applicant is issued an airline transport pilot certificate with the limitation, “Holder does not meet the pilot in command aeronautical experience requirements of ICAO,’’ as prescribed under Article 39 of the Convention on International Civil Aviation, if the applicant does not meet the ICAO requirements contained in Annex 1 “Personnel Licensing’’ to the Convention on International Civil Aviation, but otherwise meets the aeronautical experience requirements of this section.
04-08-2013 | 07:10 AM
#19
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 45,144
Likes: 801
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
Doesn't anyone read the regs anymore?
61.159(d)
(d) An applicant is issued an airline transport pilot certificate with the limitation, “Holder does not meet the pilot in command aeronautical experience requirements of ICAO,’’ as prescribed under Article 39 of the Convention on International Civil Aviation, if the applicant does not meet the ICAO requirements contained in Annex 1 “Personnel Licensing’’ to the Convention on International Civil Aviation, but otherwise meets the aeronautical experience requirements of this section.
61.159(d)
(d) An applicant is issued an airline transport pilot certificate with the limitation, “Holder does not meet the pilot in command aeronautical experience requirements of ICAO,’’ as prescribed under Article 39 of the Convention on International Civil Aviation, if the applicant does not meet the ICAO requirements contained in Annex 1 “Personnel Licensing’’ to the Convention on International Civil Aviation, but otherwise meets the aeronautical experience requirements of this section.
That's what I said at the beginning of this thread.
04-08-2013 | 08:19 AM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,498
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From: 737 FO
I actually just broke 1500 hrs. The discrepency comes from not logging PIC or SIC in instances such as all training done before I got my Private or training for my multi when I couldnt log PIC time, or a time when I flew a tailwheel with an instructor but dont have my tailwheel endorsement. That time is neither PIC or SIC but still counts toward total time
Sad but true.
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