yeah, but my bottom feeder is bigger than your bottom feeder!

Since you are so obsessed with pinnacle, and obviously not your own airline, I'll tell you what those are. Doesn't take a genius to figure them out. The lower rates are Virgin's Captain pay rates for the 320, the higher ones Deltas. And you preach about Pinnacle putting a downward hurt on others??? Shy are you married? If you are, and you get divorced, I hope for wife #2's sake you spend time paying attention to her, and not obsessed with what's going on in the ex's life...

Hey bro, it's $70/hr. And bro, I'm not at a legacy, I'm at a LCC. Compared to 2nd year FOs at other LCCs, Spirit/Allegiant/Frontier/JetBlue, I'm right in the middle in terms of pay. But thanks for your concern. Whereas you are not at a legacy or a LCC, you're at a regional. Within the regional level, where their well being is specifically defined by maintaining cost competitiveness with other regionals, you just shot everyone in the foot at other DCI carriers. My pay raise doesn't affect Delta pilots because their flying doesn't depend on my airline. Tomorrow, their management won't cut their A320 flying and give it to us because we are cheaper. But that's exactly what happens at the regional level, and exactly what you've done now that you voted in 4th/12 year caps and paycuts.

And for the record, $49/hr first year pay is the highest of any LCC today (right up there with JetBlue). But please don't let facts get in the way of a good bashing.


It's obvious your attitude is certain LCCs are bottom feeders. Look in a mirror and realize you're at a bottom feeding regional that voluntarily took a paycut to save your job.

they are your payrates for Captain vs a Legacy......
I beg to differ, there are plenty of RJ drivers making 112-161 an hour....not the norm, but there are some.

edit...opps sorry I'm a slow typer already covered!

so you're a bottom?

oh dear lord, you're on 2nd year pay now. So I messed up your DOH by what, 13 days? my bad!:rolleyes:

"Feeder".............

Legacy versus a new LCC. Completely different apples to oranges comparison. You cannot compare a 53 airplane airline to a 700+ airline legacy. And IF you are going to do that kind of comparison, then find me the most junior Captain at Delta. Most junior CA at VX is a Feb 2010 hire, and this individual does better than a Feb 2010 DOH at Delta, who is bottom barrel reserve FO.

But you can't make that comparison because the scope is entirely different. 53 airplanes versus 700. A more realistic comparison is with other LCCs. Spirit has about 50 airplanes. Allegiant has around the same number, I think a little more. Frontier has around 55 airplanes. JetBlue is bigger at 150+, but still within the same scope. Compared to THESE airlines, which are representative of the flying VX does, VX is right in the middle of the pack, arguably right behind JetBlue.

Now compare all that to the regional level, where you are directly competing with other regionals, within the same size and scope of flying. All key regionals these days fly the same kind of RJs, in approx. the 100-250 airplane size, and are cutthroat competition with each other to secure flying. That is an entirely different animal in comparison. If Frontier takes a paycut, Delta management doesn't tell Delta to take a paycut or lose flying. However when 9E voluntarily takes a paycut, I guarantee you Delta will force SkyWest/ASA, XJT, GoJet and every other DCI carrier out there to match the new 9E or be forced cuts. It's YOUR colleagues who are now gloating about getting new CRJ-700 flying. All made possible due to the paycuts you took. This isn't even an example of throwing stones from a glass house. This is just pure stupidity trying to throw a baseless attack that isn't on the same scale. You want to compare VX, compare it to LCCs because that's what VX is. It is unrealistic to compare it to a 700 airplane legacy.

I'm not actually stuck at 9E, I'm here by choice, you see I do other things than just fly airplanes.

and you are so much better than him for shelling out 25k for a zero to hero program, to go to a regional in year 4 of negotiations with a crappy pay rate, just for a quick upgrade.......what have you done to better this industry? watch out from that glass house!

13 days? More like a couple months, but what's the difference, right? Gee, you sound like the union reps on class date versus sim date. Just a month and half right? Who cares.

Lol! Shy, you just wouldnt stand any thing positive happening at 9E would u? God forbid ur doom and gloom doesn't happen.

Dude, seriously now. You need to back off and give it a rest. Quit stirring man. Every thread you stick ur nose in you always end up creating animosity, and ending up defending yourself every time, why is that? doesn't that tell you something?

Take some time off dude, it won't hurt, we will all be here when u come back. But let 9E handle "their" doom and gloom the best way they can. Last thing 9E needs is a former FO who moved on to greener pastures to come back in on every thread he can to say "told you so!!", "you're doomed!!", "don't believe it, it's a dark future and I knew about it first!!!"

It's not really about whether ur right or wrong, 9E's future may very well be doomed (I personally think its pretty dark), but dude, the last thing 9E needs is putting up with you on 9E threads.

If ur thing is that you're concerned about your 9E friends still suffering it, give them a call instead.

Back to regular programming...

1. Nobody is gloating, people have asked if it's true.

2. See bolded section. it is what you do on a 6X daily basis to your former coworkers who you now bash as a whole. And cut the crap and don't say you're not bashing, read your last few posts.

Then why vote yes if you have an alternate source of income.

False. All of my flight training (Private, Instrument, Commercial, Multi) was obtained from local mom/pop airport FBOs throughout the country (moved during flight training for school and job). But please, don't let facts get in the way of a good bashing. I didn't come to 9E for a 'quick upgrade.' That would have been you in the timeframe you were hired. When I was hired, there were no new planes, just stagnation.

sorry, I'm not obsessed and need to know every little detail about you, as you have the need to do with your former employer.

That's fair enough. I still find it ironic those who take a paycut at the regional level will point to a LCC versus legacy wage to try and make a point.

Well you should be offended, while XJ and 9L collect their pay increase at class date and you don't until sim date. It's wrong. I did the math on how much it cost me, and it wasn't pretty.

You said on here that you did either the Jet U or ATP course because you didn't have enough time to get hired otherwise......

Because I'm smart enough to know that voting No, would have done nothing to change the situation or outcome we are in, and most likely it would have made it worse. Delta has the resources to play games with 9E as long as they want to get what they want. You know as well as I do the only option at Pinnacle was to vote with your feet, and that's what you did, I however, don't need to do that.

Yes. Not zero to hero, which implies starting with no experience. All of my training experience was with local FBOs, and the RJ course was done after obtaining the Pri/Inst/Comm/ME ratings. Then the RJ course was done, leading to an interview.

Your rates do put downward pressure on legacy airlines. You don't think it comes up in contract talks. Don't all regionals gloat about getting other flying. It was the case when comair shutdown. All over these boards everyone was gloating about more airplanes coming to there regional. Regionals where created to provide the cheapest feed possible.

I apologize, my rhetoric was harsh.

I can't imagine any regional pilot actually being happy when they got Comair planes. True, it means growth/upgrades/newhires, but it is coming at the expense of someone's job at Comair. That is not something to gloat about. Similarly, even if it is GoJets entire CR7 fleet up for RFP, it will be a shame if 9E gets them because they voted for paycuts and are now cheaper overall. That's why I don't think it is an event worth gloating or celebrating.

Training that your parents paid for. Do you even pay your own rent? You never get old man. Same ol shy.

Only the Private. I paid every dime for my instrument, time building, commercial, multi. As for the RJ course, I paid $5k, and the rest family. Of course I pay my own rent. I live in California, married. I am getting old. :(

Shy, I hear what your saying, but win lose or draw, this is "good news" for the guys that are there. It will buy guys time at the very least

it will also put about 250 Comair guys on the street. Again.

How and why?, I must have missed it

Pinnacle
 

The ones that are at GoJet. They are at GoJet because they cost more than their "peers".

Regionals aren't peers in any shape or form do what's best for U and ur company.

I love how we are supposed to look after the rest of the regional industry.

Because the rest of the regionals have always had our back........

You mean if we went belly up altogether (cue the I flew for colgan and my company DID go belly up) other regionals wouldn't help out?
:rolleyes:

Ok, then admit there is no such thing as unity within the regional airline pilot groups. It's cutthroat everyone looking out for themselves industry. And those DCI pilot group meetings, what's the point.

That would be unfortunate. I for one wish we would remain status quo until Delta and others started hiring, and then start parking 200's as people started to leave. But silly me, I forgot that morals and ethics left this industry a long time ago.

Bingo.

It's been like that for a while. It's sad and incredibly embarrassing in my opinion.

Case in point: the same union that is supposed to take care of its regional pilot group is also in charge of representing the mainline pilots' best interests. Anybody see anything wrong with that?

9E + XJ + 9L is the most clear and recent example of lack of unity among colleagues, since day 1.

Please explain to me what unity would have done had 9E shut down. What would unity have gotten the 9E pilots? We could have gotten hired at another regional (for those of us who would have actually done that), so preferential hiring is meaningless and laughable. So I ask again, what would unity have gotten us? Without a national seniority list I'm drawin blanks.....

Are you implying that our unity, if there would've been one, would've caused 9E fold? Just trying to follow...

I have no cristal ball. But I'm pretty damn sure that 3 groups pulling in the same direction have a bit more chances of achieving something, and making a lot less damage to their own, rather than having all three pull their own way to get the upper hand over the other two.

But that's not the case. Neither at 9E nor at the regional industry level. It just doesn't work that way.

I'm with you on the National Seniority list idea.

I meant 9E pilot group vs other regional pilot groups. It was evident that 9E's pilots were unified by 86% agreeance on the vote for better or worse - we can all agree with shy that aspect is extremely debatable. What I'm saying is why would we consider other regionals when we made our decision? Without a national seniority list all I can see happening is preferential hiring, which is a slap to our face.

Ah ok. I got you know. I totally agree with the question above. That is the main reason I can't hate on yes voters. Their reasons were legitimate, although I didn't share them.

When it came time to vote, 9E was hearing lots of shout outs from all these pilot groups who where loading up on rethoric about hanging in there, stay strong and basically asking 9E to fall on the sword on their behalf for the regional industry's sake, while they where just standing by the sidelines.

I never heard any other regional pilot group offer their share of their monthly salary before the vote, in case things didnt go we'll for 9E pilot group if that pos new contract was rejected.

This is how the industry rolls at the moment, and this has caused a self-serving agenda on pilots out there. I can't place blame.

You're bonkers if you think a national seniority list would solve anything! I don't even know where to begin.

And it's not the just regional pilots that are cuthroat. Majors are just as bad. Except they complain with a little more tact especially on public forums and probably make less spelling/ grammatical errors.

If you are familiar with the state of the industry then you know no matter what happens no one is getting furloughed anywhere. GoJets is constantly hiring - there are not going to be any furloughs, not with new rest rules, new hiring requirements and massive hiring all over the world. Before Pinnacle even thought about trying to get more flying they stated they would furlough 450. A few weeks later it was down to 150 and a few weeks later it was 0 - this happened long before 700's were even a blimp on the radar. Pinnacle lost all the Saabs and all the Q's and will soon be getting rid of 200's and still will not need to furlough. The regional game is a new paradigm.