Weren't you the one who pitched a fit because you got 742 SO and the class after you had some A320 FO slots?

Speaking of entitlement...:rolleyes:

That is just downright ignorant...

Details? You don't have to give the names, but how about what happened with them?

Ask any 9E guy. Their list will be similar.

I'll bet you can name most on my list yourself, lol.

PM sent...

...and people accused me of all sorts of things when I wasn't happy about the idea of a flow. Now you know why. :cool:

Hopefully, DAL is very briefed on the names of certain individuals.

Pinnacle HR is now Delta HR in Atlanta, they now have all records of every pilot at 9E, including training, discipline, and sick calls. Momma D is watching!!!

Training and discipline records is not what I'm talking about, lol

edited... revealing to much info for this place. Suffice it to say there is a reason why pinnacle doesn't have an hr department, IT, payroll, etc etc.

If there is a problem pilot, usually there will be some sort of documentation that follows him. It wouldn't surprise me if these 10 pilots you are referring to are very well known in management and they have been written up and disciplined...Just my guess though.

Honest question, if Delta was just going to turn around and staple/B scale Pinnacle, why didn't they just come out with that right away instead of the SSP? Also why would Delta put 9E on the bottom, thus opening themselves up to having to pay these "new hires" a much higher pay rate ( guessing DALPA will have a say in that). I have a hard time believing that, especially since they just got an overwhelming yes to operate those same aircraft for alot less.

Why would Delta staple Pinnacle?

I agree, there will never be a B scale or flow to Delta.

Why would Delta up the pay when they could put Pinnacle at bottom/Bscale at these low rates and attract pilots across the board just to get on this list.. That doesnt cost as much. They can keep the rates low with Delta B. I dont think anyone would have thought it could go this way but things are a changing. Shortage of Pinnacle Pilots solved..

The only people Delta hired were jerks?


Glad to know where you and I stand for future reference.

Remember, we're double breasted van admirals. Thus, jerks. Every last one of us.

Speaking of, next time I'm at work, I'm going to walk down C and D concourse and judge the regional guys that aren't wearing their hats. That's of course without making eye contact or acknowledging their presence.

Judge the ones that wear their north face jackets that are always walking to or from a commute and never to or from operating a flight.....

Might as well. 85% of the Pinnacle guys voted for a new regional low to try and help themselves get onto a mainline list ahead of everyone else. Then they come on here and insult the pilots already on said list. I think it's safe to say that most of us do not like the Pinnacle flow or the situation. I think the fact that the Pinnacle pilots are throwing it in our faces is making the situation worse. The reality is I am guessing only about 1/4 of the Pinnacle pilots that interview will be offered the job. The other 75 percent will be stuck at Pinnacle making $88/hour or less until someone else hires them.

After having flown with guys from all 3 lists, I can tell you that there is definitely precedent to the top 500 thing. The top 500 at original Pinnacle - lifers, DUIs, busts, you name it. XJ and 9L guys have been vastly superior in every way. No wonder our previously crap training program is turning around - they put guys who worked for a much more fair, non-punitive system in place. It's embarassing to go into our crew rooms and hear 9E CAs laughing and wildly throwing out accusations of Colgan people causing stick shakers - apparently we FOs have to do OE for these guys?!

I am not kidding when I say that the old 9E culture was cowboy. It is refreshing to have standard CAs (XJ/9L) at the helm.

I think it's funny to get laughed at by a 9E CA when I call "airspeed" when he is 15+ knots over assigned speed or Vref and I get a hearty laugh and "are you serious??"

I had one guy who I debriefed instead of calling for a go around on an unstabilized approach (when our visual approach criteria had just changed) tell me that he would have ignored my go-around call and continued the landing. Yup "original Pinnacle".

Think ur a bit out of touch with reality. It was voted on to keep their job not for some agreement that may or may not work for a bunch of people IF they even want to go to delta. Many didn't want to start over in the right seat at another regional. I know I'm not willing to. We now keep our jobs until we get hired where we want.

The guys Delta hired out of XJ were on a large number of pilot's no fly lists here. How do you account for this? I'm not talking about pre-merger NWA guys here, I'm talking about guys who went through the Delta hiring process from XJ only. Now that they are at DAL perhaps they have changed, but when they were here at XJ, they weren't well liked.

you do realize that it is all original 9e peeps who are instructors on the unfenced side right? and 80% of the APD's have been there since the beginning......or am I reading your post wrong? But what would I know I was like 160 original 9e, so I obviously have 3 dui's, 4 pinks and zero personality...PM me if you really want to know what was/is wrong with training, if your mind isn't made up already. I think you'll be in for some eye opening surprises.

For Hockeypilot44 and 80 knots, it wouldn't be fair to judge the entire pilot group by a few pinnacle pilots. Ok, it might be several. For some reason they seem to have a higher percentage of clowns than the average. As cesnal put it, "cowboys". Just poor leadership and guidance over the years, and they just do whatever they want. I hope that this culture changes soon, and I think the training department is already making some positive changes. It's just that some of these senior pilots are pretty set in their ways. Most of the fo's I fly with are good guys with good piloting skills. Even the low time ones. Crm, and flight deck organizational skills are lacking a bit. For some reason sharing the atis, clearance, and performance numbers are a strange concept. But that was the way they were taught. Everyone wrote down everything for themselves. Anyway, my point is, there's a lot of good guys here too.

My favorite base was MEM.. the cowboy mentality is a lot worse in DTW where you have the bulk of sulky, complaining, ****ed off commuters, and JetU/gulfstream types.

Ok lets clear my understanding. Maybe I am splitting hairs here,"the guys that went through the hiring process"......two ways, premerger DELTA, pilots went through the entire interview process in its totallity from XJ and were hired by Delta. The flows had no testing, interview or psych exam to fail, just a checklist of extreme items were covered like felonies, no degree....but there was no "hiring process" So you say the guys Delta had no choice in the matter to take "flows" were the jerks? or " the pilots that went through the hiring process that Delta?
Yes there is a difference, one where personality was checked by a three panel Delta team and one where there was not. Again it doesn't mean its a perfect process but this is where airlines filter, at their best, the personalities they prefer.

Before anyone has a tizzy, I have no problem with the flow at all but there is a massive difference between making it through the entire Delta hiring process and flowing over. I'm not condemning one or the other, they are just apples and oranges.

Also I know many of the flows and most were good pilots and nice to fly with. There has been only a couple I wish never would have come over. That's the case everywhere though. Most of the past flows are great guys IMO.

All of the FO's that I have flown with are great guys with great pilot skills. I do agree sharing of the info is a little hard for them but each one I have worked with is at least trying to share. When they work with an ex XJ guy they have to share when they work with a legacy pinnacle pilot I am sure the captain is not sharing info so it's back to the old way. I guess if I was in charge I would put something in writing either we are going to share or we are not. But we can't have such a wishy washy procedure it just doesn't make good CRM.

Long term industry pain for a short term personal gain. Isn't that what regional pilots beotch about major pilots did with scope? Or is this different when they threaten with a potential so-called "job loss."

What, I'm saying is that from an outsider looking in, I would say Delta likes to hire guys that are arrogant. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that, it's simply an observation. Jerks is perhaps the wrong word, but the guys hired from XJ outside of the flow were quite arrogant. I'm just saying the people Delta doesn't want are the immature ones, not necessarily the D-bags.

There is no other regional in my future. Call it selfish call it whatever but I won't be there for any long term industry pain at the regional level.

I'd say that just about clears it up. Got-it.

"but the guys hired from XJ outside of the flow were quite arrogant."

Like you said, nothing wrong with that but I'm curious, how many would that be exactly, that you know of that you base this opinion on?

How is that a gain? It was a loss. Id like to think not forclosing on our homes and supporting our families was more important.....

I know a lot of guys who applied there during the XJ bankruptcy before the merger of NWA/Delta. Not many got hired, I only know of about a handful.

The monetary bribe payment to vote yes. That was the gain, along with this Delta SSP which is going to help a lot of those who otherwise Delta wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole. That was the other gain.

As for not foreclosing and supporting families, that's the same reason a scab gives, but everyone knows scabbing is crossing a huge line and a no-no. If one wouldn't scab, they still manage to take care of their mortgage and their families. I have faith you would have found something else to support your family. I'm not saying your situation is like a scab, I'm just saying to make a point.

Good, I wouldn't start over at another regional if I could help it. Good luck in your next endeavor, are you still in the airline industry?

I was waiting for someone to mention the S word completely out of context, and I knew who it would most likely be. and why even say crap like that and then have some BS disclaimer in the last sentence????? go ahead, if you thought of the scab word initially, call us scabs. Don't sugar coat it.

that is about as dumb as a Delta guy calling you a scab for going to a non union airline that pays less. And don't say "i didn't call you a scab, I was saying it's the same reasoning." BS. Like the post below mentions if you didn't think it, you wouldn't even have suggested that word anywhere in here. You really are low. I can't wait to see how you bash Virgin when you leave them!

now you know he just has to get attention, not getting any at home apparently with all his time on APC!!!!!

I'm not a scab...a cheap little prostitue yes, but a scab, no.

WOW! Im amazed at the lack of maturity you just showed and maybe mental stability. Its kind of funny how you and others use the term scab so freely as if you have experience in that area. Last time I checked the definition of a Scab is crossing a picket line during a strike...when is the last time that happened? Way before I came to the airlines 13+ years ago.

Sounds like your one of those guys in the interview that met all the requirememnts but were able to fool them to think you were someone with character, integrity and professional. Probalbly on the Captains no fly list..Hope you go far with that kind of attitude..

What about us major guys who don't wear hats and make more $$$ than you?