Hiring Mins
02-10-2007 | 03:32 PM
#11
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 90
Likes: 0
From: CL604
You type-getters are screwing us all.
So, FU** you!
So, FU** you!
Anyway, don't buy a type in an RJ, its a waste, any type is a waste if you don't have PIC time to back it up. But if you want to waste money and go buy a type, go buy a citation or 737 type and save yourself 15 grand over the RJ.
Personally, I would go take your ATP written, and spend some of that cash on multi time if needed. Worst case, go get a job at Mesa for as long as it takes for you to get to a better regional!
02-10-2007 | 05:32 PM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,356
Likes: 0
From: CRJ
Is that why their pilot are the highest paid passenger pilots in the industry, just flying 737's?
02-10-2007 | 05:47 PM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 829
Likes: 0
From: 737 Left
The problem lies in the fact that they require a 737 type, therefore- when they train pilots, they don't spend all that much time in the sims or in groundschool. I've got a good friend that is a Senior SWA CA. According to Kelleher, the company has saved well over $200 million in initial training of pilots by requiring the 73 type.
What does this do you ask? Simple. They're cutting costs, which in return means lower fares, and forces the companies that don't require PFT to in return cut their costs, albeit pilot concessions.
Now true, SWA and their requirement isn't the sole factor salaries are at an all time low, but they aren't helping the situation.
SWA and Pinnacle are identical.
Go to JetUniversity, get your CRJ type and you're guaranteed a job. A+ Pinnacle.
02-10-2007 | 06:59 PM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 433
Likes: 0
From: B737, On Top
If you're talking about London/Paris/Milan/Rome, the cost is probably equivalent or slightly higher than LA. Other cities can be a lot more reasonable.
Still, their pay is much higher than regional airlines, even if you factor the cost of living, but you have to pay $40k in advance for a Type rating.
Still, their pay is much higher than regional airlines, even if you factor the cost of living, but you have to pay $40k in advance for a Type rating.
I have a friend, and he did his flight training at the klm flight academy. All they have over there are the actual simulators, their flight training is actually being done in arizona, I believe. Flight training in Amsterdam is not affordable really. Not to mention taxes and user fees.
But after he finished his flight training, got a type rating in one of the airplanes of klm's fleet, he got actually hired by KLM and is flying first right seat with them. Besides that, he had financed his study at klm academy and the airline klm PAID off his loan
.so, yah...I guess JAA is a bit better than FAA?
02-10-2007 | 07:18 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,425
Likes: 0
We're gonna compare Delta's rates because they are the only numbers I have that are pre-concessionary for the legacies.
Pre-concessionary Contracts
DAL 737-300 (low end) and 737NG (high end)
Yr | -CA- | -FO-
12 | $257 | $175
01 | $212 | $56
Awesome pension and 401(k)
SWA 737 (all types) pay when DAL's above pay rates were effective
Yr | -CA- | -FO-
12 | $179 | $118
01 | $158 | $47
401(k)
Yep, you read that right - a topped out FO at DAL was making within 2% of what a topped out SWA CAPTAIN was making!
==============================================
After concessions (current rates):
DAL 737-300 (low end) and 737NG (high end)
Yr | -CA- | -FO-
12 | $157 | $103
01 | $139 | $49
401(k)
SWA 737 (all types) pay (current rates):
Yr | -CA- | -FO-
12 | $198 | $131
01 | $174 | $52
401(k)
So I ask you, is SWA the highest paid because they raised the bar, or because others fell considerably? SWA built their airline off of their employee's low paid butts. There is no high horse for them to be on.
02-10-2007 | 07:23 PM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 295
Likes: 0
From: DAL 737 FO
Exactly!!!!
If we ever want to get back to the way it was before 9-11, (doubt it) you guys entering the industry have got to think long term instead of "how can I get my turbine time the quickest"!!!!
If we ever want to get back to the way it was before 9-11, (doubt it) you guys entering the industry have got to think long term instead of "how can I get my turbine time the quickest"!!!!
02-10-2007 | 07:28 PM
#18
Banned
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 6,929
Likes: 0
From: A-320
Here's some education:
We're gonna compare Delta's rates because they are the only numbers I have that are pre-concessionary for the legacies.
Pre-concessionary Contracts
DAL 737-300 (low end) and 737NG (high end)
Yr | -CA- | -FO-
12 | $257 | $175
01 | $212 | $56
Awesome pension and 401(k)
SWA 737 (all types) pay when DAL's above pay rates were effective
Yr | -CA- | -FO-
12 | $179 | $118
01 | $158 | $47
401(k)
Yep, you read that right - a topped out FO at DAL was making within 2% of what a topped out SWA CAPTAIN was making!
==============================================
After concessions (current rates):
DAL 737-300 (low end) and 737NG (high end)
Yr | -CA- | -FO-
12 | $157 | $103
01 | $139 | $49
401(k)
SWA 737 (all types) pay (current rates):
Yr | -CA- | -FO-
12 | $198 | $131
01 | $174 | $52
401(k)
So I ask you, is SWA the highest paid because they raised the bar, or because others fell considerably? SWA built their airline off of their employee's low paid butts. There is no high horse for them to be on.
We're gonna compare Delta's rates because they are the only numbers I have that are pre-concessionary for the legacies.
Pre-concessionary Contracts
DAL 737-300 (low end) and 737NG (high end)
Yr | -CA- | -FO-
12 | $257 | $175
01 | $212 | $56
Awesome pension and 401(k)
SWA 737 (all types) pay when DAL's above pay rates were effective
Yr | -CA- | -FO-
12 | $179 | $118
01 | $158 | $47
401(k)
Yep, you read that right - a topped out FO at DAL was making within 2% of what a topped out SWA CAPTAIN was making!
==============================================
After concessions (current rates):
DAL 737-300 (low end) and 737NG (high end)
Yr | -CA- | -FO-
12 | $157 | $103
01 | $139 | $49
401(k)
SWA 737 (all types) pay (current rates):
Yr | -CA- | -FO-
12 | $198 | $131
01 | $174 | $52
401(k)
So I ask you, is SWA the highest paid because they raised the bar, or because others fell considerably? SWA built their airline off of their employee's low paid butts. There is no high horse for them to be on.
interesting, very intertesting, seems as though FOSTERS is right once agian, if the industry didnt tank SWA would be one of the least favorable places, hope the industry rebounds
02-11-2007 | 01:24 AM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 614
Likes: 0
Bring that up in an interesting discussion with a furloughed SWA pilot...oh yeah there arent any...free kool aid a couple houses down from a popular ATL hotel......
02-11-2007 | 05:00 AM
#20
Bored
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 445
Likes: 0
From: Grumman Torture Device (weekends only)
You guys forget: that when SWA started becoming a player (mid 1990's), most airlines either required a type rating and/or training bond (indentured servitude?) when you started so it was not unusual then. They are in the position now where they can ask for it.
Also, the reason Delta went under was, even with their higher wages, their Quality of Service / Travel Experience sucked compared to SWA. And evidently it's not all price, because SWA has been raising fares all year long, with no drop in business.....
Also, the reason Delta went under was, even with their higher wages, their Quality of Service / Travel Experience sucked compared to SWA. And evidently it's not all price, because SWA has been raising fares all year long, with no drop in business.....
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