MatchPoint

The 2008 XJT/SKW debacle was orchestrated by Count Chocula (Smisek does look like him lol) who, in the end, schooled both sides. In the end SkyWest ate that one but management's propensity to whipsaw is something that goes on everywhere in every industry. Lorenzo wasn't the first to do it and Jerry won't be the last. They all do it! Jerry’s not pillaging XJT (look at ASA for example) unlike Lorenzo did with TIA, CAL and EAL. Nor has Jerry started an alter-ego carrier much like Lorenzo did with NY Air and PeopleExpress. He and Brad are working feverishly to right the ship and make it profitable. He has no intentions of piece mailing you all. Even though you can make comparisons between anything, this Lorenzo comparison is completely and utterly absurd.

Nevets

No, XJT does NOT bid on
anything. BR and his team does that. And we all know BH is on your seniority list. We all see it as his insurance policy. He really isn't all in over here and we know it.

And as mentioned above, XJT management does no such thing. And our CEO has NEVER shown his face to us. Almost no one would recognize him since they have literally have NEVER seen him. Again, it's very telling about him. So, no, we can't say they same thing about our same CEO. And it's also very telling why our CEO turns a blind eye on our union shop has to fight tooth and nail for contract language we had been operating with for SIX YEARS BEFORE they bought us yet seem to follower their agreement with the non-union shop. This is NOT by accident, yet you guys don't want to see it. They treat you the way they do for business purposes, nothing more. If we were one united pilot group, I'm sure they would treat some of us different than others. Of course, only a union would be able to tell if they actually were. But you guys don't get that or would rather let your red headed step son suffer while you cherish your favoritism from daddy.

MatchPoint

Yes BH and team are bidding but he's nowhere near as savvy as Chip’s team, that's why you see far more coming from Chip than Brad. And Yes Inc. is working on projects themselves. As far as the contract issues, I bet there's far more to the story. They ran into the same situation with ASA being a union shop in long term negotiations with many many issues and in the end they had a fraction of the issues they're having with XJT.

I'd agree with you that if XJT and SKW don't find a way to merge, when the $hit hits the fan, Jerry and friends will circle the wagons around SKW. Then again SKW’s currently the only one making money, but XJT pilots will claim creative accounting which is completely ridiculous..

Nevets

Don't fool yourself, Skywest got $9 million too punk XJT into the money losing CPA that JA and company negotiated with the intent to give us 16% concessions to bring us down to parity with Skywest pilot compensation. I'm not saying that they are trying to pillage ASA/XJT or that they are trying to anything other than to make it profitable. That makes business sense but when it no longer makes business sense, they will not hesitate to go that route. They won't piece meal it, they would just shrink it to non-existence. They set up that contingency when they bought us. Like I said, they would just be smarter about the way they go about coming the the same end result.

Also, they can't start an alter ego airline because that was part if the deal when they bought us. That is protection you guys are getting for free as you didn't have it before. But it's no secret, as you admitted, that they have been whipsawing us against the non-union side. Like I said, they have learned from the scorched earth past of Lorenzo and are smarter about how to go around using that leverage against us at XJT. Maybe it's an unfair comparison on the means to the same end, but you can make a reasonable argument on the end result.

Bidding goes above the head of our COO. The money deals are ALL strictly handled by the president of the corporation. This is not a secret.

I'm glad that you at least see that our top management is not benevolent to all employees. They use you against us and we all know it. Like you said, they would circle the wagons in favor of you.

And people wonder why there is any animosity between the pilot groups. This is all management's doing and you guys seem all too happy to a oblige or at the very least turn a blind eye while we are trying to make things better for all of us.

MatchPoint

I wasn't talking about the restrictions within your contract; I was talking about prior to your acquisition when we had no language. SkyWest could have started an alter-ego carrier much like TSA / GoJet or Mesa / Freedom but chose the path of its employees.

When we first acquired ASA there was a lot of opposition but over time we saw a change in the majority over there. Today we call them brothers and we are hoping for the same for you. I truly feel that Jerry wants to make you all part of the family but in the end he must make some very hard decision for the betterment of the company. And yes I do favor a merger with an in-house union but I understand why SkyWest wants the whipsaw. In this industry everyone is being whipsawed against each other by mainline and this 2 airline setup assist Inc. in keeping cost in check. Don’t blame SkyWest; blame the thumb that holds the industry down. Just remember that mainline pays “pie” and if cost exceed “pie” we simply can’t pass the increase on to our customer like mainline can. We must eat the losses and possibly face losing our contracts over time or go the way of Mesa and 9E (bankruptcy).

Regardless Nevets, you seem like a bright individual and I wish you the best. Maybe one day we’ll meet and I’ll buy the first round.

Nevets

I don't have a problem with buying rounds with any Skywest pilot. But don't expect me to say anything different than what I'm saying here.

But what is sounds to me is that you are saying that justifying and rationalizing Skywest's treatment of only a certain employee group just because we have exercised our constitutional right to create a union.

It's one thing for a company like UAL to whipsaw two or more separate independent companies against each other. It's ENTIRELY DIFFERENT thing to say that it's okay for a corporation to whipsaw two or more companies they own, control, and operate from the top down! If JA TRULY wanted to make us part of the family, he would have merged all three airlines. He doesn't because he is paid to do what's best for the shareholders only, not about family. That's not to say that the calculation couldn't change where a better business case could be made that what's better for the shareholder is to merge all the airlines. One group being non-union does NOT help that business case and it is perceived that you guys would rather have every other unionized group collectively work and fight for the things that you get for free in order to keep the balance of that equation in keeping you from exercising your constitutional rights.

As for alter ego airlines, like I have said multiple times already, they are smarter than that. That F&H play book has been used enough times now that it would be counter productive. We are not dealing with simple Lorenzo tactics here. There is a whole psychological strategy at play here that your supposed benevolent management pays high consultation/retainer fees. We may be getting out played by them but at least we are aware of what they are trying to do and trying to fight that battle tooth and nail while not being helped out by our fellow brothers, as opposed to being ignorant or conveniently looking the other way while drinking the kool aid.

PS. Doesn't it bother you that while your management is crying poor (which they are purposely overplaying, at best), their expense is partly paying for TWO SEPARATE MANAGEMENT doing exactly the same thing. You want to save them $6 million by not taking a $2/hr raise yet they spend way more than that on duplicating everything it takes to run one airline? This is the kool aid I'm talking about. We here do not tolerate any talk of no pay raises when they spend way more money in order to not give us pay raises. Do you not see what they are doing to both groups?! This on top of all the other issues I've mentioned on this thread starting from the first buyout attempt. So I ask again, are you management or just not aware?

AZFlyn1

Hey Match, been reading your posts and very well put. As someone who has worked at one of the worst (Mesa), now with one of the better places (SKW), the differences are astounding. If I have to be at a Regional I'm thankful I'm here, and I have some faith in mgmt, whereas I had none before. The culture is everything, and like Slats said, we do have a very good one here. As long as that stays in place, there's nowhere else I'd rather be until mainline calls. I also agree completely about not going after every dollar, I can live without $2/hr to stay competitive. As for that drink, Ill take it! Shoulda taken it on our last layover!

MatchPoint

I would be disappointed if you changed your tune just because we’re having a drink.

We want to be well compensated as well but we understand it's far more important to remain competitive. You can claim that our rates don’t matter but all cost add up and since we are their highest paid labor group our raises add up quicker. This is basic mathematics.

And yes I see no reason to have two of everything, I’ve been saying from the beginning we should all merge. The synergies they would gain would more than double their profits. Plus I’d be able to stop commuting and get my ATL domicile back. But…… maybe their ability to control cost by pitting the two airlines against each other more than makes up for the benefits of a merger or minimalizes them. Or maybe they plan to spin XJT down over time. Or they see the militant union mindset of many XJTers as toxic to SkyWest (just a random statement so don’t take offense and go off, I have several friends who are XJT CAs. They're great guys/gals). My point is we can what if the hell out of this but I guarantee you Jerry has a plan and the plan is for the greater good. No one understands how to survive and evolve in this industry better than Jerry.

Again I’m not Mgmt. but I can see myself moving into the training department of whoever I get on with in order to be home every night.

One tidbit you fail to realize is that a large portion, boarding on a majority, of our pilots have come from union carriers like XJT, ASA, RAH, GoJet, Pinnacle, Eagle, etc. They’ve experienced the union side and they prefer the SkyWest way.

saturn

We don't need to create movement with concessions, we have an epic retirement swing coming to do that, as well as rest rules (which for many will cause a net loss in pay). Do you really think management just ordered all of those Ejets and MRJs knowing that the only way they could find a home for them would be if the pilots saved them 6 mil a year by not having pay increase with inflation. HA! I would really like to see that.
"Well we are a bunch of crack business execs, but we couldn't take order of any of these new jets because the pilots were insistent that they be payed the same! We had put all of our chips on them taking cuts and we made absolutely no plans in the event they didn't. Too bad too, with only a $2hr cut short of profitability. I guess we're doomed, start filing for BK!" -said no SkyWest exec ever!

MatchPoint

I agree my friend, I would love to fly again with you before I get out of here. That would be a great trip!