SAPA 'Negotiations' Update
06-30-2013 | 07:00 PM
#71
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 437
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From: OO RJ FO
matchpoint, the union email that has been going around for a week or mentions that SKW will be parking 100 airplanes while EXJ parks 150, all whom are being flown for United, what the latest on that? Also, how about the Delta 50 seaters from last year. It was something like 66. Have they all been parked?
OO will park another 11-12 CRJ 200s for delta this fall, I personally think management has a plan for them... the 100 planes that come off for United are not being parked, they are just coming off contract (there is an opportunity to renew these contracts), so this is what management has been saying is we need to be competitive to keep the flying we have with United, and the 175s will be growth, if we don't renew flying with United with the CRJs then 175s will be replacement, and United doesn't hate the 200 like delta does, there is potential to keep it around. SkyWest is also really liking this pro rate thing, they will probably keep 200s just for that.
06-30-2013 | 07:04 PM
#72
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 437
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From: OO RJ FO
Thanks for the serious question, instead of getting all over-inflamed like this forum can, especially when bringing up topics like this. Haha.
Serious answer: I don't know. I realize that we have no real power when it comes to the CPA's that our companies negotiate. Perhaps there are ways that we as pilots could make it less convenient. Something like no one bidding the flying, or not picking up any open time to cover the flying.
In reality though, it would simply be nice if there was a bit of an attitude difference. It seems as though in regional world we are all far too overjoyed about "More flying for me! Hooray!" Instead of actually stopping to think about what that means for ourselves, other pilots, and the well-being of the industry in general. If my company bought a bunch of RJ-900's and a started doing a bunch of SEA-LAX and PDX-LAX runs that used to be done by 737's with Alaska pilots, I would feel that as a massive loss, and even more so when I actually had to do the flying. The problem is that we are all too overjoyed to snatch someone else's livelihood if it means another 100 numbers below me on the list.
I don't think SkyWest people actually realize what a massive threat that SKW is to both Horizon and Alaska. AS is trying to phase out any 737 smaller than an 800. So what will become of all of the current 400/700 flying? That's a heck of a lot of mainline jobs, and AS's current TA doesn't address scope.
I know the regional mantra is "get in, get time, get out." But if mainline doesn't hire for a decade like we just saw, no one is getting out. The only path to quick TPIC time is a short upgrade, and that only happens when a company grows extremely quickly, by either finding new flying, or someone else's flying. As regional pilots, we are always looking to the future when it comes to job opportunities and pay. Seeing as how we can't control if there are jobs available in the future, perhaps it's time we started focusing on our opportunity for pay in the present.
Serious answer: I don't know. I realize that we have no real power when it comes to the CPA's that our companies negotiate. Perhaps there are ways that we as pilots could make it less convenient. Something like no one bidding the flying, or not picking up any open time to cover the flying.
In reality though, it would simply be nice if there was a bit of an attitude difference. It seems as though in regional world we are all far too overjoyed about "More flying for me! Hooray!" Instead of actually stopping to think about what that means for ourselves, other pilots, and the well-being of the industry in general. If my company bought a bunch of RJ-900's and a started doing a bunch of SEA-LAX and PDX-LAX runs that used to be done by 737's with Alaska pilots, I would feel that as a massive loss, and even more so when I actually had to do the flying. The problem is that we are all too overjoyed to snatch someone else's livelihood if it means another 100 numbers below me on the list.
I don't think SkyWest people actually realize what a massive threat that SKW is to both Horizon and Alaska. AS is trying to phase out any 737 smaller than an 800. So what will become of all of the current 400/700 flying? That's a heck of a lot of mainline jobs, and AS's current TA doesn't address scope.
I know the regional mantra is "get in, get time, get out." But if mainline doesn't hire for a decade like we just saw, no one is getting out. The only path to quick TPIC time is a short upgrade, and that only happens when a company grows extremely quickly, by either finding new flying, or someone else's flying. As regional pilots, we are always looking to the future when it comes to job opportunities and pay. Seeing as how we can't control if there are jobs available in the future, perhaps it's time we started focusing on our opportunity for pay in the present.
If SkyWest is a threat to Alaska and Horizon why don't the step up and come up with a scope agreement?
06-30-2013 | 07:39 PM
#73
Works Every Weekend
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,210
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Nothing happens in a vacuum, though. It doesn't work if only one party in the situation is trying for industry-impacting improvements that should allow for pattern bargaining. I'll try to improve compensation at my airline, and you try to improve compensation at yours.
07-01-2013 | 07:34 AM
#76
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,153
Likes: 48
From: Supreme Allied Commander
Eroding pay/benefits < Stagnation or shrinkage... wake up. You want movement? I hear some retirements are coming. You want growth? Where, at Regionals or Majors? If majors are growing, the majors and regionals will have movement, if only regionals are growing, only regionals have movement and the average airline pilots long term compensation takes a nosedive. If majors are going to take back flying, the regionals are going to feel the pressure and respond by making their cost of labor even lower then it is now in order to make the divide from Major-Regional pilot pay even wider. This also puts pressure on Major airline compensation. This will make regionals more attractive to Major partners in a hope to stave off shrinking. We can either say as a pilot group, "ill take a cut while were profitable in order to be more competitive long-term with the low ball regionals" or "I'm a skilled professional, this is how much I require to do my job. If you cant afford me then I guess you'll have to find other ways to save money."
Remember the CRJ700 rates? How we were told that the 200 rate would be required to get a contract for it..and before the voting finished they announced that deal with United? History enlightens the present. Hey I can afford this car at blue book, and I'm willing to buy it. But I'm not going in there telling the seller that, I'm going to say that I'm on a tight budget and willing to walk away, then I start the offers low. Thats essentially what our dear COO is doing, and our pay rates aren't above "blue book" we are at "blue book" now. Our pay rates DO make a difference, but with that said we do NOT require concessions. To grow, maybe, but thats not a big enough carrot to me short or long term, nor for the entire SkyWest work group nor the entire airline workgroup. Management is looking out for management and the shareholders first, so they will opportunistically try to get as little out of us as possible. The sky isn't falling, don't be played by their pitch.
Remember the CRJ700 rates? How we were told that the 200 rate would be required to get a contract for it..and before the voting finished they announced that deal with United? History enlightens the present. Hey I can afford this car at blue book, and I'm willing to buy it. But I'm not going in there telling the seller that, I'm going to say that I'm on a tight budget and willing to walk away, then I start the offers low. Thats essentially what our dear COO is doing, and our pay rates aren't above "blue book" we are at "blue book" now. Our pay rates DO make a difference, but with that said we do NOT require concessions. To grow, maybe, but thats not a big enough carrot to me short or long term, nor for the entire SkyWest work group nor the entire airline workgroup. Management is looking out for management and the shareholders first, so they will opportunistically try to get as little out of us as possible. The sky isn't falling, don't be played by their pitch.
Last edited by saturn; 07-01-2013 at 07:58 AM.
07-01-2013 | 08:26 AM
#77
Rollin'
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 829
Likes: 0
From: AA Airbus
I have no intentions of staying at SkyWest but those who do will be just fine. There are far worse things that can happen to someone in life and life is far more important than some silly job.
07-01-2013 | 10:38 AM
#78
Rollin'
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 829
Likes: 0
From: AA Airbus
07-02-2013 | 03:07 AM
#80
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 519
Likes: 0
What are you smoking???
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