FAR 117 Effect
08-27-2013, 09:37 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,001
Originally Posted by WMUPilot
This is like saying a 121 Supplemental Pilot is "On Duty" while being on a pager. Wait and see how ALPA interprets it.
From ALPA's 'FAR 117 FT/DT Guide':
Q-65. How is the required rest period measured?
A-65. The rest period is measured from release from duty
until the flightcrew member reports for a FDP or reserve
assignment.
Q-67. Who determines if a flightcrew member has received an 8
consecutive-hour sleep opportunity?
A-67. Only the flightcrew member can make this determination
because of the many variables involved.
Originally Posted by Vegaspilot
One of the guys working on this at our company interprets the reg . . . it wouldn't surprise me to see something like "must be in domicile 10-12 hrs prior to FDP start" being written into company manuals.
If the company choses to put "must be in domicile 10-12 hrs prior to FDP start" in the manual, then you are not "free from all restraint" (FAR § 117.3 Definition of "Rest Period") if the company is requiring you to be in domicile.
You are also entitled to anything else you would get if you were on a company trip and not 'on duty': per diem, single occupancy hotel rooms, etc. Furthermore, you couldn't be required to do this during a scheduled day off either. Some companies do this already, like ACMI operations. Most companies are too cheap to operate this way - that is their incentive to keep it out of the company manuals.
08-27-2013, 10:18 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Position: Representing the REAL Delta
Posts: 847
Originally Posted by Around123
Looks Like same day commutes are over. Some crash pads will not be Suitable accommodations. What are you going to do? Move to base or use more of your time to commute?
eCFR ? Code of Federal Regulations
§ 117.25 Rest period.
(e) No certificate holder may schedule and no flightcrew member may accept an assignment for any reserve or flight duty period unless the flightcrew member is given a rest period of at least 10 consecutive hours immediately before beginning the reserve or flight duty period measured from the time the flightcrew member is released from duty. The 10 hour rest period must provide the flightcrew member with a minimum of 8 uninterrupted hours of sleep opportunity.
(f) If a flightcrew member determines that a rest period under paragraph (e) of this section will not provide eight uninterrupted hours of sleep opportunity, the flightcrew member must notify the certificate holder. The flightcrew member cannot report for the assigned flight duty period until he or she receives a rest period specified in paragraph (e) of this section.
§ 117.3 Definitions.
Suitable accommodation means a temperature-controlled facility with sound mitigation and the ability to control light that provides a flightcrew member with the ability to sleep either in a bed, bunk or in a chair that allows for flat or near flat sleeping position. Suitable accommodation only applies to ground facilities and does not apply to aircraft onboard rest facilities.
eCFR ? Code of Federal Regulations
§ 117.25 Rest period.
(e) No certificate holder may schedule and no flightcrew member may accept an assignment for any reserve or flight duty period unless the flightcrew member is given a rest period of at least 10 consecutive hours immediately before beginning the reserve or flight duty period measured from the time the flightcrew member is released from duty. The 10 hour rest period must provide the flightcrew member with a minimum of 8 uninterrupted hours of sleep opportunity.
(f) If a flightcrew member determines that a rest period under paragraph (e) of this section will not provide eight uninterrupted hours of sleep opportunity, the flightcrew member must notify the certificate holder. The flightcrew member cannot report for the assigned flight duty period until he or she receives a rest period specified in paragraph (e) of this section.
§ 117.3 Definitions.
Suitable accommodation means a temperature-controlled facility with sound mitigation and the ability to control light that provides a flightcrew member with the ability to sleep either in a bed, bunk or in a chair that allows for flat or near flat sleeping position. Suitable accommodation only applies to ground facilities and does not apply to aircraft onboard rest facilities.
That may be how you interprut it but that's not what it says...
08-27-2013, 10:28 AM
#24
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Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Originally Posted by Around123
The 10 hour rest period must provide the flightcrew member with a minimum of 8 uninterrupted hours of sleep opportunity.
If a flightcrew member determines that a rest period under paragraph (e) of this section will not provide eight uninterrupted hours of sleep opportunity, the flightcrew member must notify the certificate holder.
Suitable accommodation not middle seat in the back.
From a company standpoint your 3 days off is a 72 hour rest period. I think pilots will have to be in base 10 hours prior to show. I have not been through the company training program so I wonder how our POI and training department will interpret FAR Part 117.
If a flightcrew member determines that a rest period under paragraph (e) of this section will not provide eight uninterrupted hours of sleep opportunity, the flightcrew member must notify the certificate holder.
Suitable accommodation not middle seat in the back.
From a company standpoint your 3 days off is a 72 hour rest period. I think pilots will have to be in base 10 hours prior to show. I have not been through the company training program so I wonder how our POI and training department will interpret FAR Part 117.
This is incorrect.
08-27-2013, 11:00 AM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Position: Seat 0B
Posts: 1,214
I don't think rest rules are comprehensive enough. I think it should be a total package set of rules to include dietary requirements, mandatory exercise, compulsive medicines/supplements, spiritual well being practices, etc. there is a lot more to showing up for work fit for duty than just sleeping.
08-27-2013, 11:01 AM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: CE-650
Posts: 397
I think they need to define sleep opportunity.
If you need to have access to Suitable accommodations or an Rest Facility 10 hours prior to accepting an assignment, then no commuting before a flight.
When jumpseating or riding in the back you don't have;
Rest facility means a bunk or seat accommodation installed in an aircraft that provides a flightcrew member with a sleep opportunity.
or
Suitable accommodation means a temperature-controlled facility with sound mitigation and the ability to control light that provides a flightcrew member with the ability to sleep either in a bed, bunk or in a chair that allows for flat or near flat sleeping position. Suitable accommodation only applies to ground facilities and does not apply to aircraft onboard rest facilities.
I guess boeing is confused too...
"Boeing stated it has concerns about the use of the
phrase “sleep opportunity”
in
the definition. It noted that it considers a “slee
p opportunity” to be a period of time
during which sleep or rest can feasibly occur. Boe
ing suggested that the definition be
revised to read: “Rest facility means a bunk, seat,
room, or other accommodation that
provides a flightcrew member with comfort and quiet
so as to maximize sleep and rest
within a sleep opportunity period."
If you need to have access to Suitable accommodations or an Rest Facility 10 hours prior to accepting an assignment, then no commuting before a flight.
When jumpseating or riding in the back you don't have;
Rest facility means a bunk or seat accommodation installed in an aircraft that provides a flightcrew member with a sleep opportunity.
or
Suitable accommodation means a temperature-controlled facility with sound mitigation and the ability to control light that provides a flightcrew member with the ability to sleep either in a bed, bunk or in a chair that allows for flat or near flat sleeping position. Suitable accommodation only applies to ground facilities and does not apply to aircraft onboard rest facilities.
I guess boeing is confused too...
"Boeing stated it has concerns about the use of the
phrase “sleep opportunity”
in
the definition. It noted that it considers a “slee
p opportunity” to be a period of time
during which sleep or rest can feasibly occur. Boe
ing suggested that the definition be
revised to read: “Rest facility means a bunk, seat,
room, or other accommodation that
provides a flightcrew member with comfort and quiet
so as to maximize sleep and rest
within a sleep opportunity period."
08-27-2013, 11:11 AM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2011
Posts: 996
This does not effect commuting or anything you do on your time off. The FAA purposely put language in there so that commuting will not be effected. Rest opportunity is just that - an opportunity. The catch all that covers commuting is that now each crew member must sign off (dispatch release or ACARS or something) that they are well rested and fit for duty at the start of their FDP. The FAA can then wash their hands of it.
08-27-2013, 11:15 AM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: CE-650
Posts: 397
Yeah, I guess with sleep opportunity, you have the opportunity to fly into base 10 hours prior and get rest in a hotel. But you don't have to use that opportunity. Just should be defined in the definitions as the pilots choice.
08-27-2013, 11:16 AM
#30
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: the right side
Posts: 1,373
Originally Posted by DryMotorBoatin
I don't think rest rules are comprehensive enough. I think it should be a total package set of rules to include dietary requirements, mandatory exercise, compulsive medicines/supplements, spiritual well being practices, etc. there is a lot more to showing up for work fit for duty than just sleeping.
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