Outstanding ALPA Leadership for Regionals
12-27-2013, 04:13 PM
#61
Banned
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: 7th green
Posts: 4,378
Its amazing how much you learn if you volunteer and actually work within the system.
Its not perfect. But, the drivel posted in threads like this are is so far out to lunch its laughable.
12-27-2013, 06:51 PM
#64
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: Left
Posts: 1,809
Of course one of ALPA attorneys were present during PSA's negotiations. They're supposed to be. That's one of the services provided by your dues dollars. It's their job to provide legal advice during negotiations. Said attorney's relationship with LM is irrelevant. The OP claimed that LM convinced PSA pilots to vote YES on their latest TA. It's a statement which is clearly false.
So you think the best lawyer ALPA has was assigned to a 500 pilot regional airline? And said best lawyer, with an direct line to Moak, ushered the NC and MEC into negotiating the worst TA in exchange for growth in ALPA history?
Wow, your MEC and NC have you guys in the palm of their hands. They fleeced you big time.
It's their fault. Accept it, and do something about it. Recall their asses and make them prove to YOU why they deserve to represent you.
For what it's worth, ALPA employs approximately 20 attorneys all of whom answer to 2 directors of representation. Those 2 report to Moak. I'd be floored in any of those attorneys (beyond the older ones who have been around for 10-20 years) have spoken to Moak outside of a drunken conversation at the Board of Directors Meeting. In case your wondering, that's where all of ALPA and the MECs go to a resort in Florida and get loaded for 3 days of "meetings."
Wow, your MEC and NC have you guys in the palm of their hands. They fleeced you big time.
It's their fault. Accept it, and do something about it. Recall their asses and make them prove to YOU why they deserve to represent you.
For what it's worth, ALPA employs approximately 20 attorneys all of whom answer to 2 directors of representation. Those 2 report to Moak. I'd be floored in any of those attorneys (beyond the older ones who have been around for 10-20 years) have spoken to Moak outside of a drunken conversation at the Board of Directors Meeting. In case your wondering, that's where all of ALPA and the MECs go to a resort in Florida and get loaded for 3 days of "meetings."
Just so I'm sure. You're saying that there is essentially ONE person between the representation lawyers and Moak and they only communicate once per year? No emails. No memos. No phone calls. Not even indirectly. So when these lawyers go to do their job if its the day before this Board of Directors meeting the information that they are working with is a year old?
I wasn't saying that moak convinced us to do anything.
National's lawyers be it the "best" or the "worst" operate under ALPA's doctrine, or try to push current goals.
They are directed to do SOMETHING by SOMEONE. They don't just make it up as they go.
It's foolish to think Moak has no hand in any of it.
12-27-2013, 06:59 PM
#65
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Posts: 159
Bottom line it's an absolute disgrace that at a time like this contracts have been signed:
-One at DAL mainline to add more large RJs for pay raises
-Another at Endeavor Air (and other regionals) to fly those large RJs under concessions.
In the same "union" you have mainline pilots taking pay raises while regional pilots take pay cuts.
After moving from a regional up to mainline I can see what is so clearly driving all this. The old don't care about the young, and will never spend a dime of negotiating power to look out for the next generation for pilots.
Pulling the ladder up, one contract and scope concession at a time.
Shame on Moak, and shame on all of ALPA national for letting these events transpire.
ALPA's days are numbered. With Airways going the way of APA, Air Tran to SWAPA, Comair's shut down transferred to GoJet flying being "Teamsters", Skywest being the "super regional" ….the slippery slope keeps getting steeper.
-One at DAL mainline to add more large RJs for pay raises
-Another at Endeavor Air (and other regionals) to fly those large RJs under concessions.
In the same "union" you have mainline pilots taking pay raises while regional pilots take pay cuts.
After moving from a regional up to mainline I can see what is so clearly driving all this. The old don't care about the young, and will never spend a dime of negotiating power to look out for the next generation for pilots.
Pulling the ladder up, one contract and scope concession at a time.
Shame on Moak, and shame on all of ALPA national for letting these events transpire.
ALPA's days are numbered. With Airways going the way of APA, Air Tran to SWAPA, Comair's shut down transferred to GoJet flying being "Teamsters", Skywest being the "super regional" ….the slippery slope keeps getting steeper.
12-27-2013, 07:43 PM
#66
*********
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,068
Just so I'm sure. You're saying that there is essentially ONE person between the representation lawyers and Moak and they only communicate once per year? No emails. No memos. No phone calls. Not even indirectly. So when these lawyers go to do their job if its the day before this Board of Directors meeting the information that they are working with is a year old?
I wasn't saying that moak convinced us to do anything.
National's lawyers be it the "best" or the "worst" operate under ALPA's doctrine, or try to push current goals.
They are directed to do SOMETHING by SOMEONE. They don't just make it up as they go.
It's foolish to think Moak has no hand in any of it.
I wasn't saying that moak convinced us to do anything.
National's lawyers be it the "best" or the "worst" operate under ALPA's doctrine, or try to push current goals.
They are directed to do SOMETHING by SOMEONE. They don't just make it up as they go.
It's foolish to think Moak has no hand in any of it.
Like I told someone else on this thread, your dreams of a chain of command from Moak down to the NC isn't realistic. Ask any NC Chairman if their attorney helped them set goals or actually negotiated anything beyond the sections of the contract that deal with discipline, representation, arbitration or any other legal process.
The answer will be no.
12-28-2013, 02:13 AM
#67
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 352
Bottom line it's an absolute disgrace that at a time like this contracts have been signed:
-One at DAL mainline to add more large RJs for pay raises
-Another at Endeavor Air (and other regionals) to fly those large RJs under concessions.
In the same "union" you have mainline pilots taking pay raises while regional pilots take pay cuts.
After moving from a regional up to mainline I can see what is so clearly driving all this. The old don't care about the young, and will never spend a dime of negotiating power to look out for the next generation for pilots.
Pulling the ladder up, one contract and scope concession at a time.
Shame on Moak, and shame on all of ALPA national for letting these events transpire.
ALPA's days are numbered. With Airways going the way of APA, Air Tran to SWAPA, Comair's shut down transferred to GoJet flying being "Teamsters", Skywest being the "super regional" ….the slippery slope keeps getting steeper.
-One at DAL mainline to add more large RJs for pay raises
-Another at Endeavor Air (and other regionals) to fly those large RJs under concessions.
In the same "union" you have mainline pilots taking pay raises while regional pilots take pay cuts.
After moving from a regional up to mainline I can see what is so clearly driving all this. The old don't care about the young, and will never spend a dime of negotiating power to look out for the next generation for pilots.
Pulling the ladder up, one contract and scope concession at a time.
Shame on Moak, and shame on all of ALPA national for letting these events transpire.
ALPA's days are numbered. With Airways going the way of APA, Air Tran to SWAPA, Comair's shut down transferred to GoJet flying being "Teamsters", Skywest being the "super regional" ….the slippery slope keeps getting steeper.
I agree that ALPA never should have gotten into the regional business. It is a MASSIVE conflict of interest. WHo puts more $ into the ALPA purse? DL pilots or 9E pilots? 'Zactly. The regionals will never win in tis game.
The regional pilots of today are gonna be the mainline pilots of tomorow, and the majority of regional pilots who deal with ALPA are sick of this organization.
And like has been said before. It is absolutely unbelieveable that our UNION put in a strike prevention clause in our contract. That is the ONLY card that we have to play. What is ALPO doing for us that we couldn't do for ourselves in the regionals? Oh, go look at SKW. That's what.
Except he's wrong. Unfortunately, 90% of ALPA pilots don't have a clue what ALPA does. They're more interested in working on their golf swing or their next ski trip.
Its amazing how much you learn if you volunteer and actually work within the system.
Its not perfect. But, the drivel posted in threads like this are is so far out to lunch its laughable.
Its amazing how much you learn if you volunteer and actually work within the system.
Its not perfect. But, the drivel posted in threads like this are is so far out to lunch its laughable.
12-28-2013, 05:25 AM
#69
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Hot tub for now
Posts: 1,203
Just so we all understand. A volunteer means you are not getting paid.
Getting paid to do ALPA work, is a job.
The ALPA lawyer was at the PSA meeting I attended but he didn't say a word.
When I questioned some of the TA's contents, the MEC was short and stern. He doesn't like being questioned. The offer from Airways to PSA was a take it or leave it offer. They most likely would have closed down PSA if it didn't pass. ALPA should have a goal for regionals. Their plan seems to be to degrade the industry so much that it would be impossible to staff. Thereby forcing management to make positive changes. I doubt it will work.
Getting paid to do ALPA work, is a job.
The ALPA lawyer was at the PSA meeting I attended but he didn't say a word.
When I questioned some of the TA's contents, the MEC was short and stern. He doesn't like being questioned. The offer from Airways to PSA was a take it or leave it offer. They most likely would have closed down PSA if it didn't pass. ALPA should have a goal for regionals. Their plan seems to be to degrade the industry so much that it would be impossible to staff. Thereby forcing management to make positive changes. I doubt it will work.
12-28-2013, 08:39 AM
#70
Bracing for Fallacies
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: In favor of good things, not in favor of bad things
Posts: 3,543
Bottom line it's an absolute disgrace that at a time like this contracts have been signed:
-One at DAL mainline to add more large RJs for pay raises
-Another at Endeavor Air (and other regionals) to fly those large RJs under concessions.
In the same "union" you have mainline pilots taking pay raises while regional pilots take pay cuts.
After moving from a regional up to mainline I can see what is so clearly driving all this. The old don't care about the young, and will never spend a dime of negotiating power to look out for the next generation for pilots.
Pulling the ladder up, one contract and scope concession at a time.
Shame on Moak, and shame on all of ALPA national for letting these events transpire.
ALPA's days are numbered. With Airways going the way of APA, Air Tran to SWAPA, Comair's shut down transferred to GoJet flying being "Teamsters", Skywest being the "super regional" ….the slippery slope keeps getting steeper.
-One at DAL mainline to add more large RJs for pay raises
-Another at Endeavor Air (and other regionals) to fly those large RJs under concessions.
In the same "union" you have mainline pilots taking pay raises while regional pilots take pay cuts.
After moving from a regional up to mainline I can see what is so clearly driving all this. The old don't care about the young, and will never spend a dime of negotiating power to look out for the next generation for pilots.
Pulling the ladder up, one contract and scope concession at a time.
Shame on Moak, and shame on all of ALPA national for letting these events transpire.
ALPA's days are numbered. With Airways going the way of APA, Air Tran to SWAPA, Comair's shut down transferred to GoJet flying being "Teamsters", Skywest being the "super regional" ….the slippery slope keeps getting steeper.
I am very happy to see mainline pilots getting pay raises, and I'm glad our companies are very profitable. Now why in the heck are regionals being forced into take concessions or die situations???? And the situation is concessions for *bigger* RJs. Especially given the new ATP law, what gives???
Is management trying to force regionals into such an untenable situation that the government is forced to act and fix their hedonistic blunder? For example opening the door to multi crew licenses?
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