polymox

More money does in fact increase safety. Princeton University study finds financial stress can temporarily lower IQ.

Paid2fly

It looks like you're either management or a management wannabe with your divide and conquer attitude... There is no reason for any regional pilot to take cuts, our profession has fallen far enough, and the only direction for pay and benefits should be upward!

Selfmade92

It's sad that Pilots in the USA still get paid less than bus drivers or cab drivers... flying takes so much more skill and education...

and I believe it will soon take the same path here in Europe...

RJSAviator76

Actually, you're wrong, and it has nothing to do with "management" or the so-called profession. It all has to do with simple economics… you have people lining up for a virtual minimum wage job as a regional FO, why on earth should they be paid anything more than the absolute lowest that the company can get away with? Compassion? Uhh… no. The senior management would get hung by the shareholders, investors, owners. It doesn't work that way.

When people stop showing up to interviews and classes at regionals, when they start canceling flights en masse due to lack of crew, when their customers (legacies) start complaining about poor completion/on-time performance due to lack of crew, that's when things might start to change, and particularly if the regional carrier cannot do anything about it since they bid for work way low. But this again brings me to the beginning - nobody forces you to work for a regional or for a subpar paying company.

See, regional airlines bid on their work with legacy airlines with the knowledge that they will always have a steady supply of fresh new pilots willing to work for peanuts. Historically, it has worked. Face it, they are doing their job - providing the contractual feeder lift at the lowest possible cost. Any successful company, and I'm defining 'successful' company as the one that provides the highest return to its owners/shareholders/investors, is the one that always strives to reduce cost and expense wherever possible, increase profit/return for the owners/shareholders/investors and getting the job done as contracted. Squeezing you is doing their job.

This will change when regional airlines can no longer find people willing to work for those wages for whatever reason (banks not providing loans, people not wanting to fly for 20k a year, etc.), and when their business suffers because of it.

This whole cry-me-a-river because a regional FO makes peanuts is nothing but an emotional garbage. The sooner you realize that this is a business, and business decisions are ruthless and leave very little room for compassion, the better off you'll be and the better equipped you'll be to counter it. Until then… you made your bed…

BoilerUP

Those jobs do NOT require more knowledge, experience, or training than pilots - they only require more formal education than a pilot.

Also, "Senior" anything in a job description typically means having a good bit of experience and/or tenure; starting wages for PEs and programmers out of college are substantially higher than regional pilot wages today but nowhere close to the figures you have listed.

FixTheMess

Bingo! This is supply and demand, and the unfortunate reality. Morally wrong, yes, but I've yet to see any company that is morally sound. The reality is, we choose to spend money on our careers, and then work for peanuts. We are truly our own worst enemies.

crewdawg52

Good arguments. But has anyone ever sat down and determined with pencil and paper, just how much tickets will have to sell for to pay a F/O $60k/ yr and Capt $120k/ yr. Figure 39 - 76 seat plane, avg 3 - 4 legs a day.

Dont forget to include cost of F/A salaries, gas, overhead, mx, lease payments on the plane, mgt salaries, insurance, etc, etc.

In no means am I trying to stir the pot, or anything like that. Just wondering if those who say what the pay should be, have they thought about all the numbers involved.

conquestdz

Just for very rough numbers:
120000+60000=180000 total yearly per crew. 180000/800ish block hours per year (thats what I fly) is$225 per hour. Spread over 76 seats that is $2.96 per seat hour to cover the direct pay rate.
Compared to current rough numbers:
90000+40000=130000/800=162.5 for a $2.13/seat hour.

Or to put it another way using above numbers a 2 hour flights crew pay rate costs are $325 now vs $450 at the higher pay rate proposed. $125 for a 2 hour flight is an afterthought compared to the cost of mx, fuel, the airplane itself, landing fees and on and on on.

RV5M

That's the second time someone has implicated that I'm management. I'm just a poor FO who doesn't want to have to rely on the upgrade or legacy hiring lottery to make a living. There's so much "vote NO!" and "5*ck management" on this site and not much actual discussion. When regional MECs negotiate with management, are their requests based on math, economics, reality? Or are their decisions just focused on status quo and holding the line? The current system doesn't work at the regional level, probably because a regional airline isn't the same business as a national/major carrier with their name on the tail of an RJ. We should stop imitating their system. Our best interests don't align with ALPA's. I wonder if something completely different, negotiated by an independent RALPA would be a better direction for our industry. Fighting concessions and the race to the bottom isn't productive and, as you can easily read in some of these other threads, turns pilots against each other and their current union.

trip

The change will have to come from the top meaning the major partner. They hold all the cards and are dealing them out from the bottom of the deck as they see fit. The regional world does not sell the majority of their seats and have very little control over their revenue, most just survive of scrappy contracts.
In what way this will happen I do not know. Ideally the mainline takes the jets with the crews. Will this happen? not likely because then the door has been opened and future contracts will increase the cost of having the jets on property. Then the carriers left operating with contracted feed will have a big advantage.