My only issue with ATP is that they lower the bar for CFIs in the same way Gulfstream, GoJets and Mesa lower the bar for those of us in the regional world. Believe it or not, an ATP instructor makes on average $6/hr.

I have no experience with their training program directly. I have known a few guys who came out of ATP and who worked for ATP and they were all good pilots.

While it would be nice if all commercial pilots, including entry-level CFI's, got paid a living wage, the reality is that their life-cycle is just too short...by the time they start to understand what's going on, it's time to move on. You're probably p*ssing up a rope trying to improve that :rolleyes: I don't know, maybe if alpa national started a cfi program...

The good news is that career CFI's can make a living wage by specializing into areas that newbies can't touch.

I think we may be able to reach entry-level airline pilots, though. If I can save one person from becoming mesa cannon-fodder, my time spent posting here was well worth it.

I have to disagree Rick. I was able to live comfortably as an instructor and many others do as well. Granted, I did not have a mortgage, kids, car payments or massive amounts of student loans (which you will rack up if you go to ATP) but I still took a paycut when I came to XJT. Working as a CFI for $6/hr is selling your skills short in the same way a guy working at GoJets as a CRJ-700 CA for $60/hr is selling his skills short just in the name of getting ahead in this industry.

No I can't. I also see the big picture. ME time, good mx, lots of students, and a faster route to the 121 world.

-LAFF

You have...MESA is completely off my list...

-LAFF

Oh there are definately decent CFI jobs out there, I made a lot more doing cfi than as a regional FO. But it takes hustle and networking to get into something like that, and a lot of young people are just naturally following the path of least resistance into low-paying jobs. I was saying that a crusade to change that is probably doomed...

It would actually be great if the airlines recruited pilots out of college, screened them very, very carefully, and provided all of their training from the ground up (kind of like the europeans do). But that's not going to happen either...

Isn't the big picture getting from the regionals to the majors as quickly as possible? Isn't that why people go to places like GoJets? It sure isn't the awesome pay and workrules and the respect of your peers. So why not go work for GoJets if it will get you to that job at the majors faster? Thats what you said the big picture is, isn't it? You said you'd go to ATP for the ME time, building time faster, etc, right? Well at GoJets you'd definitely build multi TURBINE time. And you will definitely build hours FAST as you get raped by the non-existent work rules, tricked into breaking 30/7, 16 hours duty, etc etc. So there ya go LAFF! Everything you want! Everything you say is part of the "big picture". I'd suggest you fill out that application TODAY!

I tend to agree that the crusade to keep CFIs away from the low paying jobs is a foregone conclusion. I am encouraged by the fact that many of those who jump at that first crappy regional job to come along usually leave it after a year. And as soon as they realize that they actually ended up further behind than those of us who waited for a good regional to hire us, then we may be on to something.

Rick, I think you do an excellent job educating people on these boards. Better than most of us. But I think this point needs to be made:
Lets take 2 CMEL pilots both with 500 hours TT and 100 ME. Jumpy takes the first crappy regional job that comes along and is flying 121 in a shiny jet thinking life is grand for a year or 2. After the honeymoon is over, he realizes how much life sucks and goes looking to a "good" regional after 2 years.

Patient Pilot on the other hand stuck it out instructing, flying cargo, pipeline patrol, etc and built up to 1500 hours after a year and was hired by a good regional a year after Jumpy left. Now its one year later and Patient Pilot is halfway to upgrade and still likes coming to work. Patient Pilot gets a phone call from Jumpy asking if he would walk in his resume to the good regional. Jumpy gets hired and is now 1 year seniority under Patient. Who got the better deal?

1st question - Yes.

2nd question - I can only speak for myself. I won't be one of them. I'm not going to cross a line, work at a alter-ego, work at MESA.

Thanks for your suggestion to fill out an application. I will be. However, it will be for ExpressJet, Comair, Pinnacle.

-LAFF