BURFLYER,
My first question on the thread was a very real question (however I am not looking at going to Gulfstream or anywhere else at this time). I still don't get what is "wrong" with doing your training at a place like Gulfstream. Take my situation. Right now I own my own business, own my own airplane so I enjoy flying whenever I want right now but have always thought of flying for an airline. If wanted to sell my business and go into the airlines (which at this point I have my PPL, Instrument, and Commercial SEL w/1000TT but no multi yet.) why would I not look at going to a place like Gulfstream/ATP/etc.. where I can do the "14 week program or whatever they call it at different schools" to get my ratings and build some time and then fly the 250 hours in a B1900 then get hired to go somewhere such as XJT, ASA, SKY west, etc..??? I dont' want to be farting around at the local FBO wasting time (and money). I would want the "most effecient way" to get to a regional so I can start making money therefore Gulfstream/ATP/Delt Acad/ make sense from my standpoint. Again, I am no where near the point I would go to any of these schools since for now I have decided not to fly for a regional. I am just saying why this makes sense to me. Everyone keeps saying "Why pay for training at a place like Gulfstream", Anyway you look at it, you have to PAY for your training all the way from your PPL till you get your CFI.

As for places like Gulftstream bringing down the industry and lowering the pay of pilots at other regionals, as far as I can tell your unions have negotiated the wages you are getting paid at most of the airlines so that seems to be the place to point fingers... not some small regional out of FL. :D

I find it absolutely hilarious that some are willing to defend the practices of GIA while putting a well established and credible training organization like ATP down. No wonder the regional world can't get a fair shake.

So why would you want to pay huge amounts for a transition type course? Buy some ME time and start sending out resumes.

The problem with GIA is that you are paying to work a job. That takes jobs out of the available pool for people that deserve it.

Tell you what, pay me $30,000 and I'll give you 100 hours of ME time and you can be my personal assistant for the next 6 months.

Oh and lets not forget that fact that every person in the industry that finds out you paid to fly for GIA will hate your guts and make you miserable. Its just wrong and you know it is.

This is correct, and I should have clarified that. It only came to mind because I happen to know one of the .00001%

I will argue this one because the training is so closely affiliated with mesa that you are essentially making your check out to JO. The certificate training is not really PFT, but it includes the RJ training in the package which makes it PFT by any definition. Additionally the MAPD program is part of mesa's master plan to take advantage of pilots...

The other schools just provide a service for which they get paid. They gain no benefit from your future employment. Mesa gains a 250 pilot who is stuck at mesa for at least a couple years, and who has to take whatever abuse is offered...and then ask politely for more!

Dessertdog,
I do stand corrected. :rolleyes: I guess in my situation, just getting some multi time would be most econmical and make the most sense. I guess my arguement would be more for the lower time guys that just have a couple hundred hours.

The term PFT doesn't mean someone who paid for his/her certification training...we all did that except the military crowd.

In the aviation context PFT means someone who paid for the training required by the FAA to fly a specific aircraft, as a condition of getting a job flying that aircraft. Some regionals used to do this, notably COMAIR and XJet...of course they NEVER remember that when they are trash-talking every other regional in the country :rolleyes:

The problem with PFT is that pilots often change airplanes and sometimes change jobs...how would you like to have to pay for 121 type training ($30k+)every 1-2 years? It's just a bad precedent...pilots should not have to buy aircraft-specific training.

Mesa still does PFT in the form of MAPD, and in fact SWA requires new-hires to obtain a 737 type prior to employment. I don't like this either, but at least with SWA you can buy that rating with a reasonable expectation of NEVER having to fly any other aircraft type during your career.

hey dmbinhburg, I'm selling 200 hours of high quality learjet time for 35k. All you have to do is show up everyday to my job for two months and do it for free. If can't see what is wrong with that, then you are just trying to encite all of us.

We don't want the GIA practice to become the norm...next we would have to pay for EVERY training event:

"Honey, we just got a bill from your company...it's $3500 for the PC you had last week. Did you finish paying off the credit card for one six months ago?"

Those of us who have a few years in this industry understand how easily things like that can happen if we let them...

[quote=DMBinHBurg;93413
As for places like Gulftstream bringing down the industry and lowering the pay of pilots at other regionals, as far as I can tell your unions have negotiated the wages you are getting paid at most of the airlines so that seems to be the place to point fingers... not some small regional out of FL. :D[/quote]

If someone is willing to pay for my job what leverage does my representaion have? This is EXACTLY why the wages are where they are at. Why cant you make the correlation?

I am not sure if any other airline is still doing PFT so I think thats why you hear so much about Gulfstream.

I never said that we should lie to people about PFT. All that I am saying is that if people continue to go to places like Gulfstream, then there will not be that major airline job waiting for you. Why? Because someone has just paid 50K dollars to sit in the right seat of that 737. The job that you wanted to get to so fast is now gone. That is our future.

Do you get it now???? Think I am being too pessimistic? We shall see.

I think thats the point. You said its a good training environment. If you are actually flying a real airline, the "training" per se should be over. Would you put your wife and kids on a flight acroos the country with a 300 hour pilot flying a jet. We arent talking abut a 172 here. e are talking about a jet with people on it. I think thats why everyone is appaled at this You shouldnt have to pay for a job.