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Originally Posted by DMBinHBurg
(Post 93413)
BURFLYER,
I still don't get what is "wrong" with doing your training at a place like Gulfstream. Here's a good example. When I was CFI'ing I wanted to live and work in FL. Gulfstream was an option. However it wasn't - because I would've had to fork over almost thirty thousand dollars if I wanted the "job". At what point in the job selection process should companies hire employees based on how much money they can pay for it? On your point about how Gulfstream hasn't affected the airline world - keep in mind Mesa was doing 1900 routes down in FL - the same routes Gulfstream is doing now. Gulfstream kicked Mesa out of FL and displaced all of those people. Mesa isn't the pinnacle of places to work, but it's infinitely better than Gulfstream. |
Originally Posted by STR8NLVL
(Post 93408)
Again, exactly HOW are they shady? On what exactly do you base this ridiculous opinion?
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Originally Posted by HotMamaPilot
(Post 93458)
they pass unqualified people. As I said before, I know much of their alumn(all :eek: female)....scary:eek:
-LAFF |
Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 93427)
I will argue this one because the training is so closely affiliated with mesa that you are essentially making your check out to JO. The certificate training is not really PFT, but it includes the RJ training in the package which makes it PFT by any definition. Additionally the MAPD program is part of mesa's master plan to take advantage of pilots...
The other schools just provide a service for which they get paid. They gain no benefit from your future employment. Mesa gains a 250 pilot who is stuck at mesa for at least a couple years, and who has to take whatever abuse is offered...and then ask politely for more! You are at skywest now, correct? Surely you know the inside joke is Mesa is Skywest Airline Pilot Development? The folks that graduate MAPD aren't stuck at MAG for years...barely one year and that's if they didn't change the date on their training contract. Yes, mesa does gain a low time pilot. But so does ASA, Comair, Expressjet, Eagle, AWAC, yes even Skywest with their reduced hiring mins when these airlines hire thru their bridge programs (with varying times). I don't like mesa as much as you don't like it; but don't single them out. They aren't the only ones doing it. |
Originally Posted by DMBinHBurg
(Post 93413)
BURFLYER,
which at this point I have my PPL, Instrument, and Commercial SEL w/1000TT but no multi yet.) why would I not look at going to a place like Gulfstream/ATP/etc.. where I can do the "14 week program or whatever they call it at different schools" to get my ratings and build some time and then fly the 250 hours in a B1900 then get hired to go somewhere such as XJT, ASA, SKY west, etc..??? |
Originally Posted by fosters
(Post 93466)
I assure you MAPD doesn't make much, if any, money. You can't rent out a Bonanza for $130/hr when fuel is $4/gal and make money off of it. Their CFI rates were recently increased, but used to just barely cover the costs of the CFI pay + benefits. The people who make the money are the folks over at SJCC.
MAPD provides a service for which they are paid - private thru multi training and in some cases CFI training when MAG hiring has slowed down. And they do it at a lower cost point then a significant amount of the aviation colleges. You are at skywest now, correct? Surely you know the inside joke is Mesa is Skywest Airline Pilot Development? The folks that graduate MAPD aren't stuck at MAG for years...barely one year and that's if they didn't change the date on their training contract. Yes, mesa does gain a low time pilot. But so does ASA, Comair, Expressjet, Eagle, AWAC, yes even Skywest with their reduced hiring mins when these airlines hire thru their bridge programs (with varying times). I don't like mesa as much as you don't like it; but don't single them out. They aren't the only ones doing it. Philosophically, there is a very fine line with the whole PFT, and it's hard to be sure where it starts and stops. These things are bad in my opinion: 1) Paying for type-specific training. 2) Getting a job based on 1) 3) Paying the employer for this training. MAPD does all three, so I don't feel bad singling them out. Other schools may do 1) and may facilitate 2), but don't they actually employ you. MAPD makes their real money by providing mesa with ready-to-abuse pilots. They don't have to make much money selling flight training. |
HotMama
Originally Posted by HotMamaPilot
(Post 93209)
That's the problem. I know of three females in particular who went there and took a bridge program to XJT. I know guys like LAFF don't get it, but these gals have no bidness driving a car, let alone flying a plane.
I’ve read your post on ATP grads and realize that you aren’t a fan... I am an ATP grad and have flown part 91 freight in a larger turbo-prop aircraft and have also flight instructed and now I’m at an airline. I realize that some people who come from ATP are "tools" as you suggest from your posts, but the vast majority of us are not that way. I don’t care where you get your license; any rating you receive is a license to learn. I don’t care if it comes from ATP, DCA, or mom and pop FBO down the street. You have to realize that examiners must evaluate each candidate by the same PTS. I instructed for ATP for a while and know for a fact that the examiners I used for my students could care less about where the student learned. And no, there is no money exchanged from ATP to the examiners. I guess the moral of my rant is that tool bags come from every school and even the miliary. So lumping everyone together into the same "tool bag" grouping isn't fair to the normal, hard working, pilots like myself. |
Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 93471)
SKW has not lowered their hiring minimums, still 1000/100.
http://www.atpflightschool.com/image...t_Alliance.gif MAPD makes their real money by providing mesa with ready-to-abuse pilots. They don't have to make much money selling flight training. |
I truely am sorry if I offended anyone about ATP. I was generalizing. I know there are good peops too that come out of ATP . Merry Christmas:)
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Originally Posted by LAfrequentflyer
(Post 93146)
ATP is not in that group. They offer an excellent training package for a fixed price. If you are interested in being an airline pilot give ATP a serious look.
-LAFF |
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