ATP Written Reg in effect soon.
02-18-2014, 08:30 AM
#41
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2012
Posts: 432
Originally Posted by BeechedJet
I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume with that flight time and that age you haven't forked over 15k towards aviation yet. If you have you must be some sort of wizard.
Forked over 15K as in invested in something besides my certs? No. Saved up? No. A little exaggeration.
02-18-2014, 10:25 AM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 453
Originally Posted by Beech90
What if a person just turned 20 and has ~1700 TT 500 TPIC /135 Current. But cannot take the written due to age, and will not fork over 15K. Zero sympathy for that?
02-18-2014, 11:47 AM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: 145
Posts: 219
I plan to take the written in May or June, and should have the 1500 hours in August or September, so this reg doesn't really effect me. But I do feel bad for the people coming up behind me. This course is easily going to cost $15,000 to $20,000 at the FSI/CAE type places. The 142 sim schools are pretty much the only ones that are equipped and in a position to offer the classes, and they can set the price where they want.
As for the I-paid-for-my-ATP-myself crowd that thinks the new pilots should just quit complaining and fork over the money, a $15k-20K course is much less palatable than the $1200-2000 that it currently costs to go out and rent a PA44 and do an ATP ride. Not only that, but the costs of college and flight training have gone up quite a bit in the last few years. Going from zero to commercial at the local FBO that I teach at is right about $45k. Then add in the costs of getting Multi-addon, CFI, II, MEI, and thats at least $60,000 for training at a 'local FBO' these days, not an aviation university program. Add in college at a state school (another $50k, possibly more), then that brings the grand total just to be a commercial pilot to $110,000. To expect people to now pay an additional $15k-20k on top that (after CFIing for a couple years and getting crap pay) is well over what is reasonable for 'paying dues'.
As for the I-paid-for-my-ATP-myself crowd that thinks the new pilots should just quit complaining and fork over the money, a $15k-20K course is much less palatable than the $1200-2000 that it currently costs to go out and rent a PA44 and do an ATP ride. Not only that, but the costs of college and flight training have gone up quite a bit in the last few years. Going from zero to commercial at the local FBO that I teach at is right about $45k. Then add in the costs of getting Multi-addon, CFI, II, MEI, and thats at least $60,000 for training at a 'local FBO' these days, not an aviation university program. Add in college at a state school (another $50k, possibly more), then that brings the grand total just to be a commercial pilot to $110,000. To expect people to now pay an additional $15k-20k on top that (after CFIing for a couple years and getting crap pay) is well over what is reasonable for 'paying dues'.
02-18-2014, 03:50 PM
#46
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Position: Window Seat
Posts: 1,430
Originally Posted by Beech90
The reason why we shouldn't pay for that ATP course? The regionals (Most) have the facilities and instructors to take a extra week to offer this course.
Choosing to invest in yourself and additional ratings is a good thing no matter how you slice it.
Paying for a job is not a good thing, no matter how you try to justify it. (NOTE: for clarification this is not directed at Beech, just a general opinion of mine.)
It sounds like you generally did do everything right though. No debt and no 141 pilot mill. Keep going down the paths less traveled and you'll do fine and have more fun.
02-19-2014, 04:34 AM
#47
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2007
Position: Sr. VP of button pushing
Posts: 2,732
Originally Posted by CBreezy
The requirements for the new ATP written can easily and seamlessly be intergrated into regional airline training programs. In fact, I would be surprised if most didn't already exceed the requirements. The only difference would they would have to endorse you for the written prior to your ATP/type-ride.
02-19-2014, 05:14 AM
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Hot tub for now
Posts: 1,203
Originally Posted by Celeste
I plan to take the written in May or June, and should have the 1500 hours in August or September, so this reg doesn't really effect me. But I do feel bad for the people coming up behind me. This course is easily going to cost $15,000 to $20,000 at the FSI/CAE type places. The 142 sim schools are pretty much the only ones that are equipped and in a position to offer the classes, and they can set the price where they want.
As for the I-paid-for-my-ATP-myself crowd that thinks the new pilots should just quit complaining and fork over the money, a $15k-20K course is much less palatable than the $1200-2000 that it currently costs to go out and rent a PA44 and do an ATP ride. Not only that, but the costs of college and flight training have gone up quite a bit in the last few years. Going from zero to commercial at the local FBO that I teach at is right about $45k. Then add in the costs of getting Multi-addon, CFI, II, MEI, and thats at least $60,000 for training at a 'local FBO' these days, not an aviation university program. Add in college at a state school (another $50k, possibly more), then that brings the grand total just to be a commercial pilot to $110,000. To expect people to now pay an additional $15k-20k on top that (after CFIing for a couple years and getting crap pay) is well over what is reasonable for 'paying dues'.
As for the I-paid-for-my-ATP-myself crowd that thinks the new pilots should just quit complaining and fork over the money, a $15k-20K course is much less palatable than the $1200-2000 that it currently costs to go out and rent a PA44 and do an ATP ride. Not only that, but the costs of college and flight training have gone up quite a bit in the last few years. Going from zero to commercial at the local FBO that I teach at is right about $45k. Then add in the costs of getting Multi-addon, CFI, II, MEI, and thats at least $60,000 for training at a 'local FBO' these days, not an aviation university program. Add in college at a state school (another $50k, possibly more), then that brings the grand total just to be a commercial pilot to $110,000. To expect people to now pay an additional $15k-20k on top that (after CFIing for a couple years and getting crap pay) is well over what is reasonable for 'paying dues'.
At one time to be competitive for a regional you needed 2500tt.
Life isn't a race. Teach for a couple years, do some 135. If you get to a major at 35 you will have plenty of time to save for retirement.
02-19-2014, 05:38 AM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Posts: 381
So a guy/gal goes from steam-gauge C-172 to a Level C FMS 40,000# jet.
That's a big jump.
I went from Baron 58 to a Lear Jet 24/25 and that was a big jump.
It was like I almost had to re-learn how to fly again. Many things were counter intuitive like landing a Lear (or any jet) power back and then more power is needed as the gear and flaps are down and drag goes way up. Forget the 10% level off rule. Lears can climb 6,000 fpm, you need to start the level off process 3,000' before your assigned altitude. You need to watch the power settings at cruise as you can easily exceed MMO. I only had a part of a 135 in-house ground school followed by on the job flight training. The Lear would dutch-roll on approach with the yaw damper off and it felt like it was out of control. Finally bought several books, "Handling the Big Jets", and "Fly the Wing" to figure out on how to fly a jet.
That's a big jump.
I went from Baron 58 to a Lear Jet 24/25 and that was a big jump.
It was like I almost had to re-learn how to fly again. Many things were counter intuitive like landing a Lear (or any jet) power back and then more power is needed as the gear and flaps are down and drag goes way up. Forget the 10% level off rule. Lears can climb 6,000 fpm, you need to start the level off process 3,000' before your assigned altitude. You need to watch the power settings at cruise as you can easily exceed MMO. I only had a part of a 135 in-house ground school followed by on the job flight training. The Lear would dutch-roll on approach with the yaw damper off and it felt like it was out of control. Finally bought several books, "Handling the Big Jets", and "Fly the Wing" to figure out on how to fly a jet.
Last edited by BizPilot; 02-19-2014 at 05:50 AM.
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