View Poll Results: My vote on the TA was...
YES
47
24.48%
NO
90
46.88%
Did not vote
55
28.65%
Voters: 192. You may not vote on this poll
Eagle TA- What did you vote?
03-20-2014 | 11:11 AM
#142
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,648
Likes: 0
I really am sympathetic to your story.
Eagle will shrink anyway; when you add planes that are 50% larger you will either have 50% growth in seat sales or shrink the fleet and thus pilots. With that said bigger ships equals lees frequency, less turns and possibly better schedules. If you fight for your Qol you will have a better Qol it didn’t magically happen at the majors they fought for it, you seem to put all your stock in the winning lottery ticket. If Eagle can get off its heels of concessions than you can position yourself for more days off per month higher vacation accrual or more long call reserves spots, even if pay is not your priority. There is no bust in 5 years. 5 years from now you will be 5 years older still need to provide for your family be further down the same road, and it will be even harder to switch professions. There is no magical opportunity; if you want a better life you must build a better life. The company is not forcing concessions they are offering them, the pilots choose what they live with.
If the company wants pay caps why can’t they give you a seniority number now? Then you could work under you cap not costing them a dime extra until you can hold the 777 if you wanted to. If they want to create flow for new hires they will. They do not need permission to hire their own employees so why should you buy a “guarantee”.
Eagle will shrink anyway; when you add planes that are 50% larger you will either have 50% growth in seat sales or shrink the fleet and thus pilots. With that said bigger ships equals lees frequency, less turns and possibly better schedules. If you fight for your Qol you will have a better Qol it didn’t magically happen at the majors they fought for it, you seem to put all your stock in the winning lottery ticket. If Eagle can get off its heels of concessions than you can position yourself for more days off per month higher vacation accrual or more long call reserves spots, even if pay is not your priority. There is no bust in 5 years. 5 years from now you will be 5 years older still need to provide for your family be further down the same road, and it will be even harder to switch professions. There is no magical opportunity; if you want a better life you must build a better life. The company is not forcing concessions they are offering them, the pilots choose what they live with.
If the company wants pay caps why can’t they give you a seniority number now? Then you could work under you cap not costing them a dime extra until you can hold the 777 if you wanted to. If they want to create flow for new hires they will. They do not need permission to hire their own employees so why should you buy a “guarantee”.
As to fighting for better work rules, qol, etc. at the regionals it's not going to happen. It's a dying business model regardless, but it's built on cheap labor to undercut mainline pilot groups. Supply and demand is finally coming into play, and it's far more powerful than any contract we or the company can come up with. Pay will increase as these companies attempt to attract new hires until it reaches a point at which it is no longer financially advantageous to contract out. Flying will go back to mainline and hopefully there will be more jobs, not just less frequency.
In the meantime I want a safety net flow for my 5 years remaining of regional flow and the longer flights done by 175s may give me better schedules.
03-20-2014 | 11:14 AM
#143
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,035
Likes: 0
That may be so, but the same would apply to any contract with any language. It goes both ways.
If such an event would happen with the current contract, what prohibits them from taking us back into BK. They could then do as they please, renegotiate and file a 1013. Regardless of the profits being shown today by airlines, they could evaporate tomorrow if any catastrophic event happens and back into bankruptcy they go.
In my opinion the whole notion of 'what if this' and 'what if that' is moot. It makes no difference and any decision making should be made on the current facts and the TA in itself, without trying to predict WWIII or oil spikes. The whole game changes then with this contract or that.
Vote no, vote yes, I don't really care. But don't try to predict the best or worse possible scenario because it usually is never one or another.
If such an event would happen with the current contract, what prohibits them from taking us back into BK. They could then do as they please, renegotiate and file a 1013. Regardless of the profits being shown today by airlines, they could evaporate tomorrow if any catastrophic event happens and back into bankruptcy they go.
In my opinion the whole notion of 'what if this' and 'what if that' is moot. It makes no difference and any decision making should be made on the current facts and the TA in itself, without trying to predict WWIII or oil spikes. The whole game changes then with this contract or that.
Vote no, vote yes, I don't really care. But don't try to predict the best or worse possible scenario because it usually is never one or another.
If you really "don't care", why is it you seem to keep cheerleading for yes votes?
03-20-2014 | 11:17 AM
#144
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,035
Likes: 0
The 5 year cap is so I don't get stuck in a career I hate for the rest of my life. The regionals were never meant to be a career and I'll be damned if I make them one for myself.
As to fighting for better work rules, qol, etc. at the regionals it's not going to happen. It's a dying business model regardless, but it's built on cheap labor to undercut mainline pilot groups. Supply and demand is finally coming into play, and it's far more powerful than any contract we or the company can come up with. Pay will increase as these companies attempt to attract new hires until it reaches a point at which it is no longer financially advantageous to contract out. Flying will go back to mainline and hopefully there will be more jobs, not just less frequency.
In the meantime I want a safety net flow for my 5 years remaining of regional flow and the longer flights done by 175s may give me better schedules.
As to fighting for better work rules, qol, etc. at the regionals it's not going to happen. It's a dying business model regardless, but it's built on cheap labor to undercut mainline pilot groups. Supply and demand is finally coming into play, and it's far more powerful than any contract we or the company can come up with. Pay will increase as these companies attempt to attract new hires until it reaches a point at which it is no longer financially advantageous to contract out. Flying will go back to mainline and hopefully there will be more jobs, not just less frequency.
In the meantime I want a safety net flow for my 5 years remaining of regional flow and the longer flights done by 175s may give me better schedules.
It sounds like you're determined to vote yes to concessions no matter how good the argument is against doing so?
03-20-2014 | 11:23 AM
#145
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,648
Likes: 0
Personally it's not a concessionary deal. I'm not losing anything I care about (pay, industry average adjustments) and I'm gaining something I do want (better flow). Everyone has different priorities so one broad reasoning is not going to work. I'm not telling anyone else what they should do, the thread wants to know how we voted, I voted yes and I gave my reasoning.
03-20-2014 | 11:24 AM
#146
Underpaid...
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,101
Likes: 0
From: French-Canadian
The 5 year cap is so I don't get stuck in a career I hate for the rest of my life. The regionals were never meant to be a career and I'll be damned if I make them one for myself.
As to fighting for better work rules, qol, etc. at the regionals it's not going to happen. It's a dying business model regardless, but it's built on cheap labor to undercut mainline pilot groups. Supply and demand is finally coming into play, and it's far more powerful than any contract we or the company can come up with. Pay will increase as these companies attempt to attract new hires until it reaches a point at which it is no longer financially advantageous to contract out. Flying will go back to mainline and hopefully there will be more jobs, not just less frequency.
In the meantime I want a safety net flow for my 5 years remaining of regional flow and the longer flights done by 175s may give me better schedules.
As to fighting for better work rules, qol, etc. at the regionals it's not going to happen. It's a dying business model regardless, but it's built on cheap labor to undercut mainline pilot groups. Supply and demand is finally coming into play, and it's far more powerful than any contract we or the company can come up with. Pay will increase as these companies attempt to attract new hires until it reaches a point at which it is no longer financially advantageous to contract out. Flying will go back to mainline and hopefully there will be more jobs, not just less frequency.
In the meantime I want a safety net flow for my 5 years remaining of regional flow and the longer flights done by 175s may give me better schedules.
03-20-2014 | 11:30 AM
#147
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 468
Likes: 0
I can see both sides to ANY argument and could have just as easily pointed out facts for or against. I was simply trying to make a point or cause some thought that might not have been considered. Just because I pointed out facts or questioned someone automatically makes me a "cheerleader."
I can assure you, and if I were to ever fly with you or be around you, I will be just fine with either a yes or no, and won't whine about it. I'll be happy just to have this over with either way.
03-20-2014 | 11:38 AM
#148
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,648
Likes: 0
I am referring to flying the longer routes we've recently lost to Republic, and dropping a good amount of the 45 minute flying which they cram in and make our lines utter garbage.
03-20-2014 | 11:46 AM
#149
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,035
Likes: 0
"keep cheerleading"? This was the first time I've even posted since this TA came out. Sorry I pointed out a rational remark that might go against your beliefs. I forgot that this is not a place for reasonable discussions or comments without being labeled or put down.
I can see both sides to ANY argument and could have just as easily pointed out facts for or against. I was simply trying to make a point or cause some thought that might not have been considered. Just because I pointed out facts or questioned someone automatically makes me a "cheerleader."
I can assure you, and if I were to ever fly with you or be around you, I will be just fine with either a yes or no, and won't whine about it. I'll be happy just to have this over with either way.
I can see both sides to ANY argument and could have just as easily pointed out facts for or against. I was simply trying to make a point or cause some thought that might not have been considered. Just because I pointed out facts or questioned someone automatically makes me a "cheerleader."
I can assure you, and if I were to ever fly with you or be around you, I will be just fine with either a yes or no, and won't whine about it. I'll be happy just to have this over with either way.
I was just asking what I considered to be a reasonable question, not attacking you. I just really have a hard time understanding how you, or any other pilot(Bzzt, etc.) could even consider taking any concessions... I don't see how it's possible that everyone in this profession aren't so sick and tired of sliding backwards that they finally wake up and take a stand against any further concessions and just vote NO! Regionals are canceling flights and pulling aircraft and routes due to the inability to staff. Commutair just got offered large raises with increased benefits including paid hotels in base for commuters. If now is not the time to stop the slide in this profession, then when?
03-20-2014 | 12:06 PM
#150
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,648
Likes: 0
I was just asking what I considered to be a reasonable question, not attacking you. I just really have a hard time understanding how you, or any other pilot(Bzzt, etc.) could even consider taking any concessions... I don't see how it's possible that everyone in this profession aren't so sick and tired of sliding backwards that they finally wake up and take a stand against any further concessions and just vote NO! Regionals are canceling flights and pulling aircraft and routes due to the inability to staff. Commutair just got offered large raises with increased benefits including paid hotels in base for commuters. If now is not the time to stop the slide in this profession, then when?
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