The idea that airline pilot is an entry level job is ludicrous. I'm sure the passengers would be happy to be told that they are entrusting their lives to crews who are entry level. It used to be CFI was entry level, hauling freight was "time building" and airline pilot was a career. It amazes and saddens me how people let themselves actually be brainwashed by the union busting propaganda.

 

Circumstances in last 10 years have made moving on tougher than usual but that hasn't stopped many from doing so. And it's not a question of FAIR. You don't get what's fair in life. You get what you negotiate or what someone else negotiated on your behalf. (Thank you ALPA volunteers and staff and the thousands that sacrificed before me.)[/QUOTE]

Or if you work for a national airline and not one of the big 2 you may lose everything because " there's really nothing we can do for you little guys". Lee Moak could not have said it better. Life ain't fair so "get in line maggot"

 

The union's anti-DFR brainwashing propaganda is even worse.

 

First job flying an RJ will definitely not be an entry-level job for me. My entry level job is now: busting around in a Cessna 172 teaching someone how to keep the greasy down and shiny up. My next job will most likely be flying a turboprop, if interview prospects work out as hoped. My third (3) (III) (tres) job in aviation will be flying an RJ.

Not an entry level job.

 

I should have said entry level AIRLINE job. I stand corrected. And BTW you don't have hundreds of lives in your hands. You have 50-90. It's a tremendous responsibility but you don't add up the total passengers to get to hundreds. In fact RJ pilots probably carry more total passengers base on the number if flights they make. But you are forgetting, the size of the paycheck is dependent on the size of he hole. (For the most part)
See above. And CFI is still entry level. Probably the lowest level. Should it be? No, but there it is.

 

Agreed. I would think that an entry level job would be something attainable right after earning your commercial ticket. I have worked for years under 91 to be eligible for a 121 job at a regional, to consider it an entry level position is laughable. Besides, moving from 4 passengers to 50, and taking a sizeable pay cut is also ridiculous. Good thing I didn't become a pilot to get rich...

This may be "entry level" in the 121 world, but certainly not as a pilot.

 

What if I'm in ATL, and miss a hold short while a heavy is taking off?

 

Seriously, your perception of reality is the main part of the problem.

You pointed it out well in saying that a regional jet pilot carries as many if not more passengers over time.

The pay is not based on natural market forces or even on the aircraft size (as you are led to believe) but on an artificial negotiated system designed to be self destructive over time. The unions do not represent the pilots anymore, they have become a tool for big management to drive down employee costs.

At least as a flight instructor, a pilot can earn pay based on market demand rather than based on an artificial union closed door deal, otherwise they'd probably have to pay for the priveledge of teaching.

Also....I can earn over $200k at times flying an airliner and I must say that it requires less applied skill than when I flew regional turboprops.

 

Good point. PP in a C-172 has the same responsibility in that case. Some things we don't get paid for. Self preservation is one of them.

 

Your perception is warped. As for CFI pay, time will tell. It's very possible that CFI pay will decrease soon due to the fact that teaching may well be one of the only ways one can afford to get 1500 hours.

My perception of reality is that until there is a viable ab-initio program in the states, low time pilots will start their airline careers at airlines with small airplanes. Small airplanes that generate small profit will continue to pay small paychecks. That's reality.

This thread started with the notion that ALPA has sold younger, new airlines pilots down the river. I agree that ALPA national has not implemented a very effective scheme (on a macro level) to preserve pay and benefits for all their pilots. But taken in the context of the political environment and history of the last 20 years (actually since 1978), they have done the best they could. I'd like to see legislative change. I'd like to see the RLA amended. ALPA doesn't pursue that agenda because they're afraid of what they might get. Look at what happened with pt. 117. I'm certainly not less fatigued. Three legs days that approach nine hours are not an improvement if you ask me.

ALPA is far from perfect but I shudder to think what this profession would be like without it. (Collective bargaining that is).