Tinman1, The job indeed is a good one however all I ever think about is the next time I can go flying and it's been that way since I was a little kid. My dad owned an airplane as I grew up and my grandfather flew as well so I am a third generation pilot. I just think I have to give this career a solid shot and I think I have what it takes to make it a solid run. My degree is a good one I feel like to back me up if I'm wrong. I will have about $20,000 of debt even going to ATP after I'm finished and I don't have ANY expenses except a $400 apartment per month and gas/food at 22.

 

Well my question was what is more important to look at.. Initial FO pay or Upgrade Times as I begin to look at which airline I want to apply to? So far maybe one or two people have actually given me an opinion instead of "don't do it" but that's ok I was just asking my question. I know for many reading this it's like "this kid has 2-3 years ahead before he applies because he only has 100hrs" but I have money and resources for training with zero debt. I'll have over 1,000 in one year and maybe more.

SO recently I've began to figure out Skywest pays decently well but the upgrade time is longer than of I went to PSA... Etc.

 

Make sure you set aside a good 6-12 months to actually learn everything ATP didn't teach you.

 

Upgrade times are too unpredictable! QOL and contract are very important especially if you get stuck as an FO for 8-10 years like many here have... Also look for an airline that has a base where you live or wouldn't mind living in as commuting sucks!!!! For now though focus all your attention on getting through your ratings, it's a lot of work!! By the time you have the hours I guarantee the regional landscape will be completely different!

 

Going to Lakes is actually a great idea in this situation! Might as well do some using as you get used. I would hesitate doing a Commercial multi-engine at the local FBO, though. Most FBO's don't even have twins for rent, or if they do, they are so old they are hangar queens and require too much maintenance to be able to follow an aggressive schedule of training. But the idea of getting lakes to pay for your experience while building better quality flight time is brilliant!

 

As I re-read your post, you are asking about what is more important- upgrade time or FO pay.

If you chose upgrade time as the most important, wouldn't FO pay just kind of work itself out all by itself? IE- FO pay is not that important if your upgrade is quick.

In any event, I think you have answered your own question. You have alluded that financial stressors are less of a concern for you. Knowing this, I would submit that maybe the real comparison you are seeking is Upgrade Time vs. Quality of Life.

 

What you don't get yet, is this job is not "fun" flying. It's not really even flying, it's NOTHING like you are used to. 98% of the time the autopilot is on. You don't really fly anything the way you want, besides a little leeway on visual approaches.. you pretty much do exactly what your told by ATC all day long.. And that just pretty much involves pushing buttons on the flight guidance panel, or changing vertical speed rates with a thumb wheel to change altitudes. You pre-program the route on the ground and then you just sit there pretty much and do what ATC says for Altitudes with an occasional waypoint change.. And it's not like you do anything fun there.. it's typing a couple keys on the FMS then thats it.

I use to like flying but this job sucks. You get very little sleep, you are always gone, always tired, it's extremely unstable, bases open and close at regionals constantly, so you will likely end up a commuter at some point whether you like it or not (whick KILLS Quality of life), you miss out on all kinds of things with all your friends and family for very little pay for years. If you are married with kids in your career I'd give it about a 25% chance of survival. I'm single but I hear so many stories of unfaithfulness and unhappiness it's crazy. I've seen so many problems with home life it's sickening. You just aren't there so what do you expect. If you happen to have some hot wife or girlfriend at home and your gone 75% of the time what do you think she's doing when you aren't there and she's lonely. Plenty of douchebags will be all over that situation. This is to be expected and if you think otherwise you are just naive. Once you upgrade its not "as" horrible since the pay is liveable, but then you go back to garbage schedules with 11 days off max again because now you are a junior Captain.. Basically starting at the bottom just like a new hire all over again.

No way in hell I would do this career over again if I could start over at your age. If you like flying get a good job and fly for fun on the side. This job made me hate flying. 95% of the people I work with would probably also say they are not happy with this career.. At least at the regional level. There is the occasional type who just LOVE it though for whatever reason.. So maybe you will get lucky.

Oh, and we all thought we were smart and tried to plan out the best route to get to a major ASAP. Things don't really go as planned, ever, in this industry as most of here have seen. So beware.. Not tryin to scare you off but you better damn well be prepared to make 30-40k for a decade and have a pretty miserable quality of life for that first stretch. It may go better but don't for a second think thats guaranteed as we have all experienced. I went to one of the best regionals when I got hired, now it's one of the worst and it's existsistance is questionable at best. This is the way of this industry.. And with seniority systems in place you are completely screwed when something goes bad, you can't just "go" somewhere else without severe consequences. Companies know this and take advantage of it.

Like many others said, I'd reccomend military/guard route only. Flying is more fun, no debt.. If you still want airlines it will make your life so much easier, Minimizing time at the regionals because a major will take you much quicker with MIL background.

 

I too am the 3rd generation and knew what I was getting in to. If you are set on it, you need to make it your 100% focus and give up on the young party crowd and social life. I took several chances in my career and so far they have paid off, but it was miserable for most of my time at the regionals. You will always be gone and commuting makes it worse. I was doing either a 3 leg commute, or a 1 leg with a hour and a half drive (outstation based) with 11-13 days off a month. Some stretches of being gone for 14-17 days at a time. You will lose touch with your friends, your significant other will get sick of you being gone unless she is extremely supportive ( I got really lucky there), and the pay is sh!t.

It is true when most people say this job sucks the fun out of flying. I was like you and could not wait to go fly next. Now, I can't wait till I am home and off next. Granted, I am based at home and on reserve, and not being used much, but I am not truly off. I can't stray too far from home, go grab a drink with friends, make solid commitments in case I do get called, or generally have a life. You will work the opposite schedule as your friends and family but on the plus side the m-f commute sucks.

Now with all that doom and gloom said, I still love this job. It may not seem like it, but I really do. I cannot see myself doing the m-f 8-5 office job. I got enough of that during training. Most people I fly with are great, the destinations are great, the eventual pay and time off will be great but there is great sacrifice on the front end of this career. If you work hard, keep your nose clean, build your network and connections, hopefully it will all work out. You will never know if the choices you made were the right ones until the day you retire and look back on it all.

In regards to your question, if you pick a place for a quick upgrade and things go south in the industry, is that a place you can see yourself staying for quite some time? The quick upgrade today, will not be tomorrow. I went for the quick upgrade after several years at a different regional and it worked for me. But shortly after I left they were downgrading and displacing. You just never know what will happen to the place you go.

 

My money is on this kid not listening and going to ATP and racking up a world or hurt to his bank account and 10 years from now, he'll come back and post that he should have listened.

 

ATP is a joke.