Name User

Yes but it took two parties to agree to those terms.

The regional model is very simple. They are a staffing agency.

As it is, the lower tier companies are having zero issues attracting pilots because of the fast upgrades and career progression. That is all anyone wants out of the regionals, in the end, except for the top x% lifers.

skypilot35

Who changed my header?

Name User

Definitely a local issue. ALPA National should have guidelines against it, but they can't tell the individual groups how to split up the money.

skypilot35

I don't believe it's just a local issue but an industry culture issue. Additionally, I think the current seniority system we operate under is detrimental to every pilot in the industry because it prohibits movement from one carrier to the next. The system works in the favor of management. I cannot think of any other profession where experience is not considered when calculating compensation. If I could argue for one thing it would be a single seniority system across the regional airline industry.

There is no incentive for regional airlines to retain individuals. In fact if we look at Envoy and the 2650 pilots (APC numbers) currently on the payroll, what incentive does AAG management have to keep any of them? If AAG folds Envoy and puts the 2650 pilots on the street I would speculate many would move to another carrier starting at first year pay. AAG contracts out to the lowest bidder and the same pilot that was a 15 year captain making $99 an hour is now a 1st year FO making $22 without the medical / 401K / Dental / etc. This system has to change. There needs to be an incentive for the company to want to keep their pilots and the industry should pay for experienced professionals not some arbitrary date of hire.

Regarding ALPA contributing to the pilot shortage, I think that is nonsense. There is no pilot shortage. I do however hold the opinion that ALPA does not represent the interests of the regional pilot. There is a direct conflict of interest with regard to compensation for pilots at a Major and pilots at a Regional. If the companies contracting out the flying (Delta, United, American) have to pay more for regional pilot labor, then there is less money available for Major pilot labor. I think its that simple and that is why I don't believe ALPA has the regional pilot's best interest in mind (at least monetarily).

I am not sure what the fix is for the problems in OUR industry, but I am certain a good starting point would be the seniority list.

deltajuliet

How do we rally every regional pilot group to get behind that? Envoy guys seem like a logical place to start. Others will be supportive, some will be resistant - again, the senior Captains and lifers at non-Envoy regionals. You sort of run into the same problem, guys at the top not willing to give up for guys at the bottom. Logistically and legally it seems like a big nightmare.

The most expeditious way to spearhead it might be an act of legislation, but how do pilots convince Congress, especially while airline management cries bloody murder?

skypilot35

I don't know the answer. Perhaps the first step would be to identify whether or not the majority of regional pilots would be interested in pushing for one seniority list. If the results of whatever polling metric used indicate a positive response then I would imagine a representative group could be formed to hash out the details.

BrewCity

So why do Virgin America and Skywest have pay scales so similar to their unionized counterparts?

skypilot35

Im not sure I understand your question, but I would imagine because there is an industry standard; albeit a poor one at the regional level.

Aksleddriver

Sky pilot your solution has on one very big flaw to it, all regionals arnt owned by one entity, so if I'm company x and I do all the right things, hire the right pilots, invest in proper training, pay fairly, basically put out a superior product, why should I want to allow someone that was trained and worked at company y to be able to come in and be on a higher seniority posisitions, then the guy I envested in from day one ? Especially if company y went out of business because of bad disicions ?

intrepidcv11

I always listen the industrial opinions of an obese former male fight attendant. Btw nice fact checking on the claim that ATP minimums changed from 250 hrs to 1500 hrs Mr MIT.