Originally Posted by Spoiler

Above you are flat out wrong
Other jobs for example within the oil industry are paid based on company profitability. If you want to set toilets and be the tyrant at your own fiefdom then fine. But don't go off pontificating about things you know nothing about.

Originally Posted by Frick

Some jobs do....but most don't. At my current job, I haven't got a raise in over 4 years. Sure it sucks, but the owner can do what he wants. That's business. I don't know many people in ANY industry that get a raise (besides a standard yearly raise) when the company is more profitable. I know a few people that do, but not many.

Originally Posted by RJ Pilot

November 16, 2014

Fellow DFW Pilots,


Negotiations Update

Recently, we received confirmation that AAG has officially withdrawn from this recent round of negotiations with ALPA. No specific explanation was given over AAG’s decision to walk away from the negotiating table, although the Company articulated their offense to a MEC Newsblast that was sent to the pilot group last Wednesday night. We urge everyone to judge the content of that Newsblast for themselves.

Be rest assured that your MEC has worked diligently on the past negotiations. We take this monumental responsibility seriously knowing the extreme importance of the outcome. We also understand that in addition to 2,500 pilots, there are over 11,000 other households counting on Envoy’s survival. Envoy pilots are sincerely interested in the future success of this Company and every member of the MEC is invested and dedicated in working together with the Company to secure a brilliant future for this carrier.

It is truly unfortunate and particularly disappointing that AAG walked away in the middle of negotiations, especially since we were making progress and believed we were relatively close to securing an agreement that the MEC could support. While our counter proposal achieved the economics demanded from the Company, we remained separated on the particulars regarding Fleet Commitment, Flow Through, and protections regarding existing employees for 12/4 Longevity Pay Caps. The Company had regressed in these areas.

Negotiating is typically a delicate dance where either party compromises to satisfy various interests. The Company is asking our pilot group to give up millions in concessions in order to better align our costs with the recent reduction in costs obtained at their other wholly-owned Fee-For-Departure airlines. In return, our pilots have voiced their needs for reasonable, equitable assurances. Our pilots are simply requesting that AAG provide future job security and an opportunity for career progression in return for the sought concessions.

It is important to add that we have learned AAG is likely to make some rather unpleasant announcements affecting Envoy’s upcoming operations. We have not been given specific details about this bad news on the horizon other than these announcements have less to do with negotiations than they do with Envoy’s inability to attract and retain pilots.

We recognize the hardship and stress the pilot group has endured as a result of these year and a half negotiations tacked onto the end of the bankruptcy process. We commend and appreciate your resolve. While it has not been an easy road traveled, we undoubtedly know that your continued professionalism will shine. It is your professionalism that keeps AAG interested in the pilots of Envoy. Please keep in contact with your local representatives and remember that they are listening.

The Company has not indicated if or when they will reengage the Association.



In Unity,


Anyone care to elaborate what the 'Bad News' is?

Good Luck.

Originally Posted by diva

RJ Pilot. Aren't you happy with your new corp job? Wouldn't you be happy for ENY to succeed even you decided to leave after xx yrs of dedication? If so why are you stirring the pot and creating new ENY threads? If you really want the best for your fellow ENY pilots you shouldn't post like you've been doing lately. Cause I haven't seen anything other than negative posts by you.

Originally Posted by RJ Pilot

Easy there diva. Im very happy where Im at now but still have many good friends at ENY. My advice to you is to get out. IMHO, the NY gang man along with his followers are negotiating in bad faith just to prove a point and beat Glass, something that isn't and aint happening.

Management got tired this time.

Good Luck.

Originally Posted by AboveAndBeyond

It is ridiculous to think that you should be paid more just because the company is profitable. Would the receptionist, or janitor, or electrician expect these things? Pilots are not special. At the regional level, we are just another contract employee.

I understand the romance of "holding the line", but it doesn't work that way. You eat the crap that they put in front of you, and you move on. That is how it works. If you do not like the benefits and pay that a job offer, do not take the job. It drives me crazy when people go to work at a company, and try to change the company to meet their needs. It doesn't work that way. If the company wants to change the benefits and pay, then you need to leave and go elsewhere if you do not like the changes.

Originally Posted by AboveAndBeyond

That is how every other industry works, why should the airlines be different? If I have a plumbing business, or a restaurant, or any other business, I can choose to cut the benefits of employees if I want to. They can leave then if they want to. That is how the real world works.

The trick is that most companies do not want to lose their employees. It takes time and money to train new employees, and takes months if not years to get them up to the level of my current employees. What makes the airlines different is the whole seniority thing. I understand that you think that it is different based on seniority, but you CHOSE to become a pilot and work in a profession which places such a huge value on seniority. Once you took the job, with the understanding of how the system worked, you accepted it. Complaining about it after the fact is like buying a car and then complaining to the dealer that it is red. You bought it, it is not their fault.

Originally Posted by AboveAndBeyond

Sure, some jobs are based on profitability. Lawyers are another great example of this.

The airlines are not an industry that currently does. If you want profit sharing, go work in an industry that has profit sharing.

Originally Posted by Frick

Some jobs do....but most don't. At my current job, I haven't got a raise in over 4 years. Sure it sucks, but the owner can do what he wants. That's business. I don't know many people in ANY industry that get a raise (besides a standard yearly raise) when the company is more profitable. I know a few people that do, but not many.