Mainline buying regionals
12-05-2014 | 09:05 AM
#12
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From: Engines Turn or People Swim
It's never been a good thing, other than maybe slightly higher non-rev priority on mainline. They're still subject to competitive pressures in the regional industry. In addition to that, wholly-owned regionals can serve as "capacity accumulators" when mainline needs to quickly adjust it's regional fleet...the non-owned regionals all have contracts with cancellation penalties.
The phrase "being owned by DAL means everything" is an ironic joke in the industry.
Except the Pan Am guys can say they flew for a legendary legacy airline for a little while before BK liquidation...that would be cool, to have a model of a Pan Am 727 on your bookcase.
The phrase "being owned by DAL means everything" is an ironic joke in the industry.
Except the Pan Am guys can say they flew for a legendary legacy airline for a little while before BK liquidation...that would be cool, to have a model of a Pan Am 727 on your bookcase.
12-05-2014 | 09:10 AM
#13
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From: 6 Train - Panhandler
12-05-2014 | 09:11 AM
#14
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For the majority, pretty much.
However, the ones that were a part of the whole "buy up multiple commuters and turn them into ContinentalExpress" that got FTA, it WAS A GOOD THING.
I'm talking the guys that ACTUALLY GOT TO TAKE ADVANTAGE of the flow.
In a relative scale, worked great on the way up, as well as the way down, then back on the way up for them. If applicable.
However, the ones that were a part of the whole "buy up multiple commuters and turn them into ContinentalExpress" that got FTA, it WAS A GOOD THING.
I'm talking the guys that ACTUALLY GOT TO TAKE ADVANTAGE of the flow.
In a relative scale, worked great on the way up, as well as the way down, then back on the way up for them. If applicable.
12-05-2014 | 09:17 AM
#15
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Yes, Comair died a death of a thousand cuts. There are others who are no longer around.
AMR purchased the likes of Simmons, Command, Air Virginia, Wings West, Business Express and Executive. As mentioned elsewhere, Executive wasn't merged into what is now Envoy.
I know people who were flying at Command (ATR 42s and Shorts 360s) and Simmons (ATR 42s/72s and Shorts 360s) who were not happy with the acquisition by AMR. As smaller carriers, like Comair, they enjoyed better insurance and travel benefits along with being able to live in base. The merger of all these carriers into American Eagle, now Envoy, ruined that for many of them.
Unlike Comair employees, they did have jobs after their carriers were merged with others. Delta refused to merge ASA and Comair. They said it was too costly to merge the two carriers. That's when most of us knew this was a control issue.
There was a point in time when major carriers did own their own feeders. That cycle, with PSA, Envoy and Piedmont being owned by AAG, is repeating itself.
Prior to Comair being shut down, Delta said they didn't need to own their regional carriers preferring to have "partners." So, now, who does Delta own? Endeavor!
History does have a tendency to repeat itself.
AMR purchased the likes of Simmons, Command, Air Virginia, Wings West, Business Express and Executive. As mentioned elsewhere, Executive wasn't merged into what is now Envoy.
I know people who were flying at Command (ATR 42s and Shorts 360s) and Simmons (ATR 42s/72s and Shorts 360s) who were not happy with the acquisition by AMR. As smaller carriers, like Comair, they enjoyed better insurance and travel benefits along with being able to live in base. The merger of all these carriers into American Eagle, now Envoy, ruined that for many of them.
Unlike Comair employees, they did have jobs after their carriers were merged with others. Delta refused to merge ASA and Comair. They said it was too costly to merge the two carriers. That's when most of us knew this was a control issue.
There was a point in time when major carriers did own their own feeders. That cycle, with PSA, Envoy and Piedmont being owned by AAG, is repeating itself.
Prior to Comair being shut down, Delta said they didn't need to own their regional carriers preferring to have "partners." So, now, who does Delta own? Endeavor!
History does have a tendency to repeat itself.
Last edited by sailingfun; 12-05-2014 at 09:27 AM.
12-05-2014 | 09:43 AM
#16
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Concomitant with the denial of Comair and ASA's merger request, ALPA adopted this "permitted" model which divided ALPA members into preferred and non preferred groups.
Without a real merger policy, there was no way to force real, structural, unity. In effect ALPA agreed to alter ego whipsaw, as long as it existed at the permitted aircraft level.
The perception was, and is, that express jobs are not real airline pilot jobs. That for some reason your flying, which indistinguishably mimics the flying I do, is simply a stepping stone to a real job ... and only real jobs should be protected."
Unless I am misinterpreting this then there is NO real language to protect regional pilots when being bought by mainline? Also indirectly it seems ALPA allows whipsawing for regionals that it does not allow at mainline?
12-05-2014 | 09:57 AM
#17
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Pretty sure there was a little more to it than that. By them, BK them, get their costs down to a disgustingly low rate for regional feed. As well as being able to leverage ExpressJet down even further when it comes time for rate reset, etc......
12-05-2014 | 10:00 AM
#18
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From: Engines Turn or People Swim
For the majority, pretty much.
However, the ones that were a part of the whole "buy up multiple commuters and turn them into ContinentalExpress" that got FTA, it WAS A GOOD THING.
I'm talking the guys that ACTUALLY GOT TO TAKE ADVANTAGE of the flow.
In a relative scale, worked great on the way up, as well as the way down, then back on the way up for them. If applicable.
However, the ones that were a part of the whole "buy up multiple commuters and turn them into ContinentalExpress" that got FTA, it WAS A GOOD THING.
I'm talking the guys that ACTUALLY GOT TO TAKE ADVANTAGE of the flow.
In a relative scale, worked great on the way up, as well as the way down, then back on the way up for them. If applicable.
Any idea how long the flow path took from XJT new-hire to CAL FO?
12-05-2014 | 10:06 AM
#19
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From: left seat CRJ (again!)
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