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Old 12-10-2014 | 02:42 PM
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Cool story Bro! Quack, quack


Originally Posted by Mesabah
You have it exactly opposite, it's those rigorous standards that got people to accept regional wages in the first place. That's what cheapens the profession.

BTW, a friend of mine on the first page of the DAL seniority list, was never hired by a mainline, over the years he was acquired to that position.
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Old 12-10-2014 | 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Mesabah
You have it exactly opposite, it's those rigorous standards that got people to accept regional wages in the first place. That's what cheapens the profession.

BTW, a friend of mine on the first page of the DAL seniority list, was never hired by a mainline, over the years he was acquired to that position.
So what though?

Seriously, so what?

So that is supposed to prove that all interviews are stupid and employers should just take employees on general principle?

The much aligned DL interview actually has a fairly high pass rate in general, and a very, very high pass rate among those who actually prepare. A couple weeks of hard work and study, one time, for a job of this magnitude isn't too much to ask.

Showing up with a bag full of shirt pocket "logbooks" or cracking under 2 minutes of slight scenario pressure or just unprepared in general for a huge one/two day interview with millions at stake that you knew about in advance is unthinkable.
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Old 12-10-2014 | 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by gloopy
So what though?

Seriously, so what?

So that is supposed to prove that all interviews are stupid and employers should just take employees on general principle?

The much aligned DL interview actually has a fairly high pass rate in general, and a very, very high pass rate among those who actually prepare. A couple weeks of hard work and study, one time, for a job of this magnitude isn't too much to ask.

Showing up with a bag full of shirt pocket "logbooks" or cracking under 2 minutes of slight scenario pressure or just unprepared in general for a huge one/two day interview with millions at stake that you knew about in advance is unthinkable.
So you send them back to fly Delta passengers, in Delta owned aircraft at a different division of the company. That makes a lot of sense. What exactly did you screen for? You acquired lots of NWA pilots and Western pilots without screening them. I'm just curious why it takes a tougher screening process to fly Delta aircraft with more than 76 seats than it does to fly aircraft with 76 seats or less.
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Old 12-10-2014 | 03:40 PM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by toomanyrjs
What the hell is up with the serious entitlement issues among regional pilots? Why should ANY RJ pilot be entitled to anything more than a chance for an interview just like the tens of thousands of mainline pilots before them? Just take a look at the miserable failure of integrating a mainline carrier with a regional when Republic tried to consolidate F9 with a bunch of whiny, spoiled, overly-entitled RJ kids. The blatant seniority grab was appalling. If anything, all regionals should be phased out of existence and those that can't qualify for a real job based on their merits should be forced out of aviation.
I thought that was already covered. Nobody is entitled to anything. Entitlement is irrelevant. It's only what is negotiated. In the history of aviation, has there been any regional that has benefited when a mainline buys a regional? Possibly Mesaba until the DAL/NWA merger and DAL not honoring NWA's agreement with Mesaba and ALPA failing to enforce it.
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Old 12-10-2014 | 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Bartender
So you send them back to fly Delta passengers, in Delta owned aircraft at a different division of the company. That makes a lot of sense. What exactly did you screen for? You acquired lots of NWA pilots and Western pilots without screening them. I'm just curious why it takes a tougher screening process to fly Delta aircraft with more than 76 seats than it does to fly aircraft with 76 seats or less.
Again that is not the point. It does not matter what another mainline interview process is. It is what is in each mainlines contract along with ALPA's merger fragmentation policy. I would be willing to bet that if a mainline buys a regional and even if the regional had rock solid contract protections in its language, when or if it becomes apparent that anything would be or look detrimental in any way to mainline pilots, sudden miraculous changes would occur. You just cannot allow any benefit in any way to regional pilots except that all regional pilots should just be thankful they still have a job.
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Old 12-10-2014 | 04:46 PM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by jethikoki
Again that is not the point. It does not matter what another mainline interview process is. It is what is in each mainlines contract along with ALPA's merger fragmentation policy. I would be willing to bet that if a mainline buys a regional and even if the regional had rock solid contract protections in its language, when or if it becomes apparent that anything would be or look detrimental in any way to mainline pilots, sudden miraculous changes would occur. You just cannot allow any benefit in any way to regional pilots except that all regional pilots should just be thankful they still have a job.
The bolded is just not an accurate statement....... I believe most mainline pilots want to see the careers of our regional brothers improved. I think the primary reason for the resistance to a straight flow is that most major airlines have process in place that seems to identify individuals that will be a good fit into their current workforce. By arbitrarily allowing any pilot that is currently flying for said carriers regional to flow bypasses this process. This does not mean that an RJ pilot is not qualified but rather they might not be a good fit.
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Old 12-10-2014 | 04:53 PM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by Captain Tony
Yes, DAL is only going to hurt themselves in the long run. I fully believe they are very much a house of cards. I do not believe they will be doing well 5-10 years from now.

Meanwhile, they are hiring military fighter pilots with no airline or crew experience, regional FOs who are connected or meet the right demographics, and regional captains right at 1000 hours PIC. Experienced regional Captains above 3000 PIC need not apply, because they are viewed as "untrainable", "undesirable", and too set in their ways. Nevermind that this was the competitive mins in the last hiring cycle. And these Captains who aren't good enough to fly DAL passengers from the right seat of a 110 seat B717 are just fine to fly DAL passengers from the left seat of a 76 seat CRJ900 on the exact same route. Oh the irony.

Yes, if DAL keeps it up, AA and UAL will have cornered the pilot labor market. But hey, they can hire who they want I guess. As the hundreds of signs in ATL say "World's Greatest Employees". Even the 22 year old female MD88 copilot who never commanded an airliner, but now has better career expectations than the 20 year airline captain.
How much just absolutely terrible info can you cram into one post?

Anyone claiming to know anything 5-10 years from now other than there are going to be a lot of retirements is speaking out of their rear end. Given your ever so astute analysis of the 717, your fundamentals might be a bit off hilter when it comes to judging economics anyways.

Let's exam the rest of this pile of junk: Starting out, you need to understand that I currently train new hires (among others).

All the majors and legacies highly value military experience. They have proven themselves in the most difficult training programs in the world. I was a bit curious as to what it would be like to teach them, particularly the single seat guys. Two words: Absolutely fantastic. They have to try harder (they are the ones you see in the CPTs late at night), but the discipline and ability to learn is phenomenal. The fact that they've never operated an airliner, nor possibly even worked in a crew cockpit before doesn't matter. They get it done and get it done very well. I completely get why they value this so much now.

regional FOs (well connected or not): I haven't seen a single one. I know 3 or 4 have been hired, but there have been over 700 people hired this cycle. Hardly an epidemic.

regional captains: I have yet to personally encounter a regional captain with LESS than 3000 PIC. Most that have been hired have spent a decade or more at the regionals. Yet another steaming turd thrown out here by you.

Which, well.. that pretty much tosses out the last part of that paragraph.

AA and UA value the military and PIC experience similarly, although AA has hired a handful more FOs. Your doom and gloom is laughable. Sure, a few connected people sneak in like the female you speak of, but that doesn't even account for half a percent of those hired.


How does it feel to be so very wrong?
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Old 12-10-2014 | 06:04 PM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by gloopy
So what though?

Seriously, so what?

So that is supposed to prove that all interviews are stupid and should just take employees on general principle?

The much aligned DL interview actual fairly high pass rate in general, and a very, very high pass rate among those who actually prepare. A couple weeks of hard work and study, one time, for a job of this magnitude isn't too much to ask.

Showing up with a bag full of shirt pocket "logbooks" or cracking under 2 minutes of slight scenario pressure or just unprepared in general for a huge one/two day interview with millions at stake that you knew about in advance is unthinkable.
Gloopy, ALPA told our guys going to the first ssp interviews that it was just a formality, show up and the job is yours. The success rate is much higher now.

The bottom line is Delta has trouble attracting pilots for its regionals. It's now in crisis mode if they are throwing millions at 9E. So how do you attract people to work here when they can have better career expectations elsewhere?
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Old 12-11-2014 | 03:56 AM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
How much just absolutely terrible info can you cram into one post?

Anyone claiming to know anything 5-10 years from now other than there are going to be a lot of retirements is speaking out of their rear end. Given your ever so astute analysis of the 717, your fundamentals might be a bit off hilter when it comes to judging economics anyways.

Let's exam the rest of this pile of junk: Starting out, you need to understand that I currently train new hires (among others).

All the majors and legacies highly value military experience. They have proven themselves in the most difficult training programs in the world. I was a bit curious as to what it would be like to teach them, particularly the single seat guys. Two words: Absolutely fantastic. They have to try harder (they are the ones you see in the CPTs late at night), but the discipline and ability to learn is phenomenal. The fact that they've never operated an airliner, nor possibly even worked in a crew cockpit before doesn't matter. They get it done and get it done very well. I completely get why they value this so much now.

regional FOs (well connected or not): I haven't seen a single one. I know 3 or 4 have been hired, but there have been over 700 people hired this cycle. Hardly an epidemic.

regional captains: I have yet to personally encounter a regional captain with LESS than 3000 PIC. Most that have been hired have spent a decade or more at the regionals. Yet another steaming turd thrown out here by you.

Which, well.. that pretty much tosses out the last part of that paragraph.

AA and UA value the military and PIC experience similarly, although AA has hired a handful more FOs. Your doom and gloom is laughable. Sure, a few connected people sneak in like the female you speak of, but that doesn't even account for half a percent of those hired.


How does it feel to be so very wrong?
I have very little respect for someone who tries so hard to "win" an argument on the internet. Your condescending tone always comes out when someone challenges you. We're just having a discussion here... chill.

However, I can give you a lengthy list of names of pilots hired with less than 3000 PIC from ASA alone. A good friend of mine just last week. Maybe, just maybe, you don't have all the answers either...
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Old 12-11-2014 | 04:36 AM
  #120  
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Originally Posted by Captain Tony
I have very little respect for someone who tries so hard to "win" an argument on the internet. Your condescending tone always comes out when someone challenges you. We're just having a discussion here... chill.

However, I can give you a lengthy list of names of pilots hired with less than 3000 PIC from ASA alone. A good friend of mine just last week. Maybe, just maybe, you don't have all the answers either...
You pounce on 80 about being condescending when you make disparaging posts like this:

Originally Posted by Captain Tony
Yes, DAL is only going to hurt themselves in the long run. I fully believe they are very much a house of cards. I do not believe they will be doing well 5-10 years from now.

Meanwhile, they are hiring military fighter pilots with no airline or crew experience, regional FOs who are connected or meet the right demographics, and regional captains right at 1000 hours PIC. Experienced regional Captains above 3000 PIC need not apply, because they are viewed as "untrainable", "undesirable", and too set in their ways. Nevermind that this was the competitive mins in the last hiring cycle. And these Captains who aren't good enough to fly DAL passengers from the right seat of a 110 seat B717 are just fine to fly DAL passengers from the left seat of a 76 seat CRJ900 on the exact same route. Oh the irony.

Yes, if DAL keeps it up, AA and UAL will have cornered the pilot labor market. But hey, they can hire who they want I guess. As the hundreds of signs in ATL say "World's Greatest Employees". Even the 22 year old female MD88 copilot who never commanded an airliner, but now has better career expectations than the 20 year airline captain.
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