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-   -   The MRJ90 and E175-E2 are done (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/98531-mrj90-e175-e2-done.html)

Mesabah 12-06-2016 01:57 AM


Originally Posted by gloopy (Post 2256699)
The tiny gates with no customs in the already overflowing at RJ capacity terminals are going to handle 27 gates worth of international wide bodies? :D

That would be fun to watch. And DL would do just fine.

No, not wide bodies, NAI's subsidized feeder jets.

sailingfun 12-06-2016 03:23 AM


Originally Posted by Mesabah (Post 2256353)
Yes, Skywest subleases the gates they lease from ATL to the airline they choose, which happens to be Delta. Airlines have the option to renew their leases. I'm fully aware of how this process works, including the different categories of gate utilization in ATL, you don't need to keep repeating it.

You keep stating Skywest owns the gates. They don't and subleases must be approved by the ATL airport authority. They don't do that normally. The take back and reissue the gate.

gloopy 12-06-2016 08:26 AM


Originally Posted by Mesabah (Post 2256747)
No, not wide bodies, NAI's subsidized feeder jets.

That even assumes that ATL is some golden goose market. Its many multiplies bigger than its O&D demand because the excess is used by DL (and a lesser extent SWA) as an arbitrary hub. First of all there is zero chance anywhere close to that total number of gates would go to the feeders of ME3 and NAI scab FoC type airlines. It would probably be a small fraction of that. DL would likely end up with a significant amount anyway, and most of the rest would go to so called LCC's that don't code share with the vermin airlines you mentioned.

IOW, empty threat. Oh, and to any extent that SKYW actually has a say, which is very little BTW, DL would easily be the highest bidder for most of those gates, which they would desperately need the money from (again, even assuming they had much of a say) because if they did that then by definition they were losing a massive amount of their revenue and guaranteed profits. There is zero chance (again, even if they had a say) that they would pass up more money in order to try and harm a DL out of hubris.

Not worried about it in the slightest. But SKYW should be.

gloopy 12-06-2016 08:51 AM


Originally Posted by Mercyful Fate (Post 2257018)
Psssst. Sorry to burst your bubble Sybil, DL is not the only game in town. If you knew and studied the company you work for, you would know a lot more than you claim. All hail the widget!

Again what is your point?

DL already has a large SWA presence in ATL, and as you know they are a fierce competitor. DL has done quite well against them. Any 27 gate new entrant would have to fight a two front war. It would actually be more than that for them, because they would have to go for the higher frequency routes and therefore also butt heads against ALG and Frontier and JB etc, so on the routes they would most likely do, they'd face razor thin margins.

And again, there is absolute zero chance a SKYW termination would result in all the gates going to a single new entrant airline. No chance at all. While you may relish the thought of an outgoing revenge strike on DL for blocking your ultra large RJ manifest destiny, its just not going to happen.

SKYW will only be permitted to operate your dream planes if they do it IndyAir style. And we all know how that will end up.

gloopy 12-06-2016 09:10 AM


Originally Posted by Mercyful Fate (Post 2257039)
SKW doesn't have to go out and start its own operation, because they have so much market share tied up in multiple partnerships. SKW has not got where they are by making stupid decisions, and they are not going to start now. It is obvious that SKW is a huge thorn in your side, and you cannot stand it. You hate the fact that your DL has so much invested in the partnership. You don't think that SKW management back in the day didn't see the writing on the wall that having all your eggs in one basket was not a smart business model? When DL pitched a fit over SKW code sharing with UAL, who ended up winning that little tiff? Sorry dude, but you will need to face the music that SKW has a LOT of pull with your company, as well as others. You know damn well the whole scope clause thing will morph and change in the years to come, because it always does. Anyone who thinks otherwise is either blissfully ignorant, or not educating themselves.

Good luck!

I don't mind the SKYW partnership at all. They are a good regional jet provider for sure. As long as they can keep their perf numbers up and stay within the hard limits of the DL and UAL agreements (to include pilot scope), great!

BTW DL didn't have a problem with SKYW flying for UAL as long as they could hold up their end of the PWA compliant CPA's. Up until now SKYW has run a good operation and have been able to do so. I'll give them credit for that all day long and have no issue with them as long as they stay within the constraints of what we permit them to do, which they will.

You sound more like a SKYW manager than a pilot, but either way that's cool. DL has dealt with managers with loftier ambitions than yours in the past (CMR, ACA, etc) and will do so again when necessary. Sorry to inform you that you will not be getting larger RJ's though. It simply will not be permitted. You will have to remain within the limits set by your existing CPA's and unionized pilot PWA's.

The size, weight and seat count is simply not going up for you. Sorry. The only thing that may happen is some kind of trade for more 76's in exchange for fewer 50's or 70's on a net seat/BH loss basis. We'll see what the next round of mainline PWA's does WRT that, but even that small carrot isn't looking good. But even if you do get that, you'll have to shrink to get it.

sailingfun 12-06-2016 10:10 AM


Originally Posted by Mercyful Fate (Post 2257062)
As far as management, pilot, janitor, lav dumper goes, lets just say I have no horse in the SKW and DL race. None of it impacts me either way. Both could vanish and it doesn't change my situation at all....

Yes, DL did have a problem with the UAL code share deal so you are dead wrong about that. That caused a massive shift on how the business model changed between majors and regionals. There is a reason those regionals like Comair and ACA no longer exist, and SKW is in the position it is. There is another reason why regionals that once puddled around in 19 seat Metro's are flying 76 seat jets in these partnerships, and that is because it is a give and take between pilot groups and management. I don't need to remind you how this happened, or how it will continue to happen in the future, because no matter what you say...you know. You guys folded like a shirt when it came to bigger equipment than the 50 seat RJs, and you will fold again. Mark my words, it will happen.

If it was going to happen it would have happened in this round of negotiations. This was when it was critical to launch the new airframes. Embraer has already acknowledged that nothing is going to change and put of the new version of the E175.


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