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-   -   The MRJ90 and E175-E2 are done (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/98531-mrj90-e175-e2-done.html)

gloopy 12-08-2016 08:28 AM


Originally Posted by Mercyful Fate (Post 2258333)
Until the crap hits the fan and both you and management start scrambling to find solutions.

If we granted more RJ relief, that would exacerbate the stuff flying off the fan. Lessons have been learned, and applied to multiple contracts at multiple airlines. The ACMI low bidders have peaked. Other than fighting amongst themselves for what we choose to allow, their only options are to go it alone or comply. Almost all will comply, and those that go it alone, well, good luck I guess. But there won't be super jumbo RJ's coming your way. That ship has sailed, and with every month that goes by hundreds of anti-RJ pilots further stack the demographics and those few senior pilots who live up to the stereotype of not caring as long as they get a couple percent more for a few years sail off into the sunset (most aren't like that though).

word302 12-08-2016 08:29 AM


Originally Posted by Mesabah (Post 2258587)
Pilots will be eliminated in less than 20 years, this is absolutely assured. The next level of automation will require a technician to monitor the aircraft. Flying is soon to be a maintenance function, no longer a pilot one. There won't be drones, there just won't be pilots.

It's not about saving the cost of the pilot, that's nothing, it's about being able to get up to 50% more utilization out of the aircraft, increasing billions in revenue.

Obviously you have no clue how long a change like that would would be implemented by the FAA. We will have 2 pilot airliners for at least another 50 years. Also, what happens when systems malfunction? Who or what is going to fix the problem? What about hackers? While the technology is right around the corner, the infrastructure and implementation is decades away.

gloopy 12-08-2016 08:32 AM


Originally Posted by Mesabah (Post 2258348)
There won't be any truck drivers in 10 years, no regional pilots in 15 years, and no mainline pilots in 20 years. I'm being generous too, it's probably much sooner.

LOL! Yeah ok.

So the machines are taking over, etc. Whatever. That tech has been around for generations and practically viable for decades. But no where near realistic on a cost basis. Humans are simply way cheaper. Especially for flying. Worst case we'll see a reduction on long haul crews. Although it would be pretty funny to see them sign off on a 2 pilot ultra long haul knowing that if something happens the pilot in deep REM sleep will have to spring to life and come help save the day bwahahahah!

Not worried about it in the slightest.

gloopy 12-08-2016 08:35 AM


Originally Posted by Mesabah (Post 2258587)

It's not about saving the cost of the pilot, that's nothing, it's about being able to get up to 50% more utilization out of the aircraft, increasing billions in revenue.

How does that effect utilization in the slightest?

Turn times have nothing to do with pilots. If anything, we'll see more and more back side of the clock flying and perhaps more stringent regulations on sleep etc. Sucks for the hero who bid back side stuff so they can run businesses and paint their houses during the day but oh well.

gloopy 12-08-2016 08:37 AM


Originally Posted by Mercyful Fate (Post 2258594)
Only point I have to make is nobody should ever think that any current situation is going to stay as is, because things have, and will always change. Jump down my throat all you want about it, but reality can be very unpleasant at times.

And yet you think the trend vector for regional airlines will always continue towards larger AC. Yes things change, and this is one of them. That trend is rapidly slowing and coming to a stop, and you're far from alone in not being able to accept it.

Now, if your broader point is to always be vigilant and not take things for granted, then of course I agree.

CBreezy 12-08-2016 08:37 AM


Originally Posted by stringandrudder (Post 2258593)
What will dictate this shift is the change in generation. Baby boomers (and older) would definitely not be "OK," with this. Millennials? It would happen tomorrow if it were possible.

I disagree completely. I know just as many millennials who are uncomfortable with self-driving cars as I do baby-boomers. It is going to take quite a bit of testing and certification to get the first fully pilotless aircraft. I estimate it to be in the next 40-50 years. Airlines aren't going to park brand new 787s in 15 years and completely repurchase an incredibly more expensive airplane just because it would save them a few dollars per ticket.

CBreezy 12-08-2016 08:44 AM


Originally Posted by gloopy (Post 2258655)
How does that effect utilization in the slightest?

Turn times have nothing to do with pilots. If anything, we'll see more and more back side of the clock flying and perhaps more stringent regulations on sleep etc. Sucks for the hero who bid back side stuff so they can run businesses and paint their houses during the day but oh well.

Exactly this. Pilots aren't salary. If you get more utilization, you don't save money. Increasing utilization allows you to get more revenue. Labor is a fixed cost (for the most part) in that equation.

Plus, many mainline aircraft already fly 24/7. The reason they don't isn't because of the pilots. It's because they can't sell enough tickets to fill up an airplane.

sailingfun 12-08-2016 08:58 AM


Originally Posted by CBreezy (Post 2258658)
I disagree completely. I know just as many millennials who are uncomfortable with self-driving cars as I do baby-boomers. It is going to take quite a bit of testing and certification to get the first fully pilotless aircraft. I estimate it to be in the next 40-50 years. Airlines aren't going to park brand new 787s in 15 years and completely repurchase an incredibly more expensive airplane just because it would save them a few dollars per ticket.

What could go wrong with a self driving car!

. An entry level pilot will incur a 24-month category freeze. 24 Exception two: A pilot who is in the last 12 months of such category freeze may be 25 awarded an AE or VD to another base for which qualification training is required if he is 26 unable to be awarded an AE or VD to such base in his current position in a given posting. 27 In such event, the balance of his existing category freeze will be added to the category 28 freeze resultin

gloopy 12-08-2016 09:05 AM


Originally Posted by Mercyful Fate (Post 2258690)
I never once said anything about larger aircraft. YOU are the one saying that.

Oh really now?

My entire point is that the 76 seat limit (along with current weights) is far more likely to hold than to be relieved. You pointed to the metro-CR9 trend as "historical" proof that regionals will continue to be granted ever increasing sized RJ's.

I've said its possible that there could be additional 76's granted for a larger corresponding reduction in seats and block hours in the 50-70 range. But even that was smacked down recently. Could it happen in the future? Maybe. But even that is a far cry from 77+ sized ones, and would require the regional sector to shrink even more, even if it did happen.


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