Excargodog

II’ll bite. Enlighten me. Why ARE senior FOs scared to upgrade because I really never thought they were scared. Enjoying the QOL and scheduling ease seniority gives you, no doubt. Able to juggle childcare needs with a spouse maybe. Guys with a side gig that suddenly became more lucrative than the career? Certainly. Even a few military retirees who could do it as a lark, not really needing CAs pay.

But I figured at worst only a very small fraction were actually apprehensive about upgrading - at least in an aircraft they already have 1000 hours in.

Justabusdriver1

There’s somewhere around 100 fos give or take a few who are able to upgrade. Not an insignificant number but also not enough to really cause or fix the problem. The problem is pay and qol items people are leaving fairly rapidly for greener pastures. People think rpa has great qol items and yeah it’s great if you live in base and are from the Midwest (hence why there so many lifers, they don’t want to commute for a major). Rpa may have decent qol and soft pay for a regional. But compared to a major the benefits there are much better. Even at the new pay rate spirit is a better financial option after only 2 years. Majors taking people without tpic and ulcc taking anyone with an atp is really the cause. New contracts will slow the bleed for a couple months. But won’t stop it. There’s still no incentive to upgrade and rpa is going after dec now but doesn’t understand they are about 6 months late on going after them and the wo scooped up most of them that wanted to do dec

Excargodog

Oh, I totally understand the ‘grass is greener’ problem with attrition. And we’ve both already mentioned the benefits of seniority in seat. What I don’t get is you saying there are people “scared’ to upgrade.

AirlineViolin

In a fascinating twist today, I saw an email to a Republic cadet today that states no more FOs are being hired because the 2022 hiring goal has been met, and they will get an email when classes open up.

Then 10 minutes after (keep in mind I am not a cadet and have a CJO for a Dec 6th class) I got a confirmation of an ATP/CTP class on behalf of Republic. Seems like a lot of mix signals.

SoFloFlyer

You and I are both on the same page. CFIsoonToBeFO said that our senior FOs are scared to upgrade. I’m trying to figure out why he/she/it thinks that. Especially considering that he/she/it isn’t even a real pilot.

All the senior FOs I spoke with want to wait until they can hold a line in the left seat before bidding in their bid.

SoFloFlyer

Just looks like you’re one of the last people to be hired this year. I would consider yourself lucky!

Justabusdriver1

Just keep in mind envoy was doing the same thing only to put people on standby for several months without actually giving them a class date. They also have to repay them for ctp if they don’t get hired. Not sure if rpa enforces that. Don’t get locked in just only to be put on hold.

Justabusdriver1

I’m not the one who said people were scared. But I do think there are probably a small number of people who are. While on oe the cka shared with me he once flew with a 6th year fo with over 4000hrs in the right seat. Refused to upgrade because they didn’t think they could handle the responsibility and being responsible in tough situations like super low vis and high Xwind. These people are far and few between but probably do exist.

CFIsoonToBeFO

Did you get a class date for training after ATP/CTP? Otherwise, they will send you to the ATP/CTP then string you along for months into 2023 then want you to pay them back for the class, when you leave to go to another airline. Make sure to get an actual Class Date for INDOC Training to go along with the ATP/CTP or be prepared to pay them back the cost of the class.

AirlineViolin

Yes, in an official email, December 6th Indoc. Was also sent a number of onboarding tasks that I completed right away last week. They know I already had my ATP/CTP done. That’s the source of my confusion. Are we cancelling classes that were already filled with applicants, or just not adding new classes/applicants.