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Old 04-20-2014 | 05:49 AM
  #61  
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DreamtoFlyy..

I had originally planned on sending you a p/m on this, however after some thought decided to post it here.

Regarding this post from TallFlyer:


You'll have to forgive the peanut gallery on here, most are pretty disgruntled for one reason or another, and some justifiably so.

All that said, if you want to fly, go for it, with a couple of caveats:
- If you're going to a "pilot mill" that's demanding 100% up front, DON'T. Not saying that it would happen to you, but some people have lot a lot of mooney this way.
- The best thing you can do right now is go get your private certificate in an old clapped out Cessna and really see how you like it. Lots of other schools out there can finish you off from that point.
- Don't even think about touching a G1000 equipped aircraft. This will not only save you money, but if you can fly IFR and shoot approaches sans glass that's a skillset that will save you money in the long term.
- Don't worry about what airline you're going to fly for until you have about 1,450 hours. Up until then everything is subject to change, and WILL change.
- Two years is a bit optimistic I think. Who knows......
Excellent advice.

Some advice for what it's worth from an older head. Most of the posters have a chip on their shoulder. They came into the industry thinking they had a right to get what they wanted when they wanted it. They have no clue about the history of the profession and how each generation fought for this industry. As long as you don't fall into that mindset, you'll be fine.

A few suggestions:

* LEARN the history of the industry. Understand how pilots got to where they were and now are. Get your hands on "Flying the Line" Vol's 1 & 2. Yes, it's the history of ALPA and tells it from that perspective. You really need to understand it to understand the industry and how the past relates to the future. Big mistakes have been made by both sides. And a lot of the guys posting snark at you have no idea that it took decades for things to get good and not so long to get bad...and that you can't just wave a magic wand to make it right.

* Don't learn to fly in airplanes that are all "glass." A truly GOOD pilot learns to FLY the plane, not just how program it. I can't tell you the number of F/O's I have flown with who can program the hell out of the FMC's, but can't hand fly the plane worth a damn. When the screens go blank, you still have to fly the plane.

* The cockpit isn't the place to read the paper, flip through a magazine, listen to your iPod, iPad or whatever. The cockpit is where you listen, keep your head on a swivel and keep your eyes open. It's your office. Treat it with respect from your first lesson until the day you retire.

* An old WWII pilot I knew who flew with Chuck Yeager and Bob Hoover once told me that an honest pilot only logs IFR if he's truly IN the clouds or under the hood. No exceptions.

* Buy an E6-B. Learn how to use it. Never forget.

* Don't buy into the hype of ANY pilot mill. Learn the craft, work hard...plan on having to fly at some places for not a lot of money to learn the business...what you learn will save your butt in the long run.

* Think...and think ahead...don't let the magic do it for you. It will only give you answers based on the information you give it. And the information may be wrong, or change rapidly. Use the computer between your ears.

* Read Earnest K. Gann...

* Until you have that dream job, be willing to own nothing more than you can pack in your car and be ready to drive to a new job on 48 hours notice. Having toys is nice...needing to pay for them has kept more than one person tied to a job they hate. And that hate festers.

* Remember that no one forced this career path on you. Anyone who complains about it only needs look in the mirror to see the person who filled their heads with unrealistic expectations.

* Study the people you learn from and fly with. Emulate the positive traits and reject the bad. It will make you a better pilot and a respected F/O...and later, Captain. (Thanks for that advice, Dad)

There's more, but you will be able to figure it out as you go. Enjoy the sunsets, the sundogs and the smell of a good cup of coffee mixed with the smell of jet fuel in the early cold before the dawn and the warm glow of all the annunciators and the panel at dusk.

The career is what you make it, not what others didn't give you.


Good luck.
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Old 04-20-2014 | 05:51 AM
  #62  
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Default Network!

Originally Posted by pilotnbr1
You are asking for insight into something that is way over the horizon. 2 years is an eternity in this business. Many things are going to change. For now watch, learn, and make your decision when the time gets much closer.

AND NETWORK! You never know who will end up at a major or if someone is already there that might help you. Make those connections and maintain them.
Dream - This is a great quote. I can't say enough about networking!

Also, even as money isn't an issue now - have you thought about the Guard/Reserves? It is great training, and you get paid a bit more than regional pay. There are different challenges, but with deployments easing the QOL is much better. There are good squadrons everywhere - even on the East Coast

Also, once you get your time, what about 135/charter, etc? There are many other avenues than a specific regional. Again, NETWORK - starting now! Best of luck, and keep up with the enthusiasm (some of us are still nice, just tired and cranky)
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Old 04-20-2014 | 05:53 AM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by ATCsaidDoWhat
DreamtoFlyy..

I had originally planned on sending you a p/m on this, however after some thought decided to post it here.

Regarding this post from TallFlyer:



Excellent advice.

Some advice for what it's worth from an older head. Most of the posters have a chip on their shoulder. They came into the industry thinking they had a right to get what they wanted when they wanted it. They have no clue about the history of the profession and how each generation fought for this industry. As long as you don't fall into that mindset, you'll be fine.

A few suggestions:

* LEARN the history of the industry. Understand how pilots got to where they were and now are. Get your hands on "Flying the Line" Vol's 1 & 2. Yes, it's the history of ALPA and tells it from that perspective. You really need to understand it to understand the industry and how the past relates to the future. Big mistakes have been made by both sides. And a lot of the guys posting snark at you have no idea that it took decades for things to get good and not so long to get bad...and that you can't just wave a magic wand to make it right.

* Don't learn to fly in airplanes that are all "glass." A truly GOOD pilot learns to FLY the plane, not just how program it. I can't tell you the number of F/O's I have flown with who can program the hell out of the FMC's, but can't hand fly the plane worth a damn. When the screens go blank, you still have to fly the plane.

* The cockpit isn't the place to read the paper, flip through a magazine, listen to your iPod, iPad or whatever. The cockpit is where you listen, keep your head on a swivel and keep your eyes open. It's your office. Treat it with respect from your first lesson until the day you retire.

* An old WWII pilot I knew who flew with Chuck Yeager and Bob Hoover once told me that an honest pilot only logs IFR if he's truly IN the clouds or under the hood. No exceptions.

* Buy an E6-B. Learn how to use it. Never forget.

* Don't buy into the hype of ANY pilot mill. Learn the craft, work hard...plan on having to fly at some places for not a lot of money to learn the business...what you learn will save your butt in the long run.

* Think...and think ahead...don't let the magic do it for you. It will only give you answers based on the information you give it. And the information may be wrong, or change rapidly. Use the computer between your ears.

* Read Earnest K. Gann...

* Until you have that dream job, be willing to own nothing more than you can pack in your car and be ready to drive to a new job on 48 hours notice. Having toys is nice...needing to pay for them has kept more than one person tied to a job they hate. And that hate festers.

* Remember that no one forced this career path on you. Anyone who complains about it only needs look in the mirror to see the person who filled their heads with unrealistic expectations.

* Study the people you learn from and fly with. Emulate the positive traits and reject the bad. It will make you a better pilot and a respected F/O...and later, Captain. (Thanks for that advice, Dad)

There's more, but you will be able to figure it out as you go. Enjoy the sunsets, the sundogs and the smell of a good cup of coffee mixed with the smell of jet fuel in the early cold before the dawn and the warm glow of all the annunciators and the panel at dusk.

The career is what you make it, not what others didn't give you.


Good luck.
And This!!! Great Advice!!!
Reply
Old 04-20-2014 | 06:02 AM
  #64  
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From: In favor of good things, not in favor of bad things
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Originally Posted by ATCsaidDoWhat
DreamtoFlyy..

I had originally planned on sending you a p/m on this, however after some thought decided to post it here.

Regarding this post from TallFlyer:



Excellent advice.

Some advice for what it's worth from an older head. Most of the posters have a chip on their shoulder. They came into the industry thinking they had a right to get what they wanted when they wanted it. They have no clue about the history of the profession and how each generation fought for this industry. As long as you don't fall into that mindset, you'll be fine.

A few suggestions:

* LEARN the history of the industry. Understand how pilots got to where they were and now are. Get your hands on "Flying the Line" Vol's 1 & 2. Yes, it's the history of ALPA and tells it from that perspective. You really need to understand it to understand the industry and how the past relates to the future. Big mistakes have been made by both sides. And a lot of the guys posting snark at you have no idea that it took decades for things to get good and not so long to get bad...and that you can't just wave a magic wand to make it right.

* Don't learn to fly in airplanes that are all "glass." A truly GOOD pilot learns to FLY the plane, not just how program it. I can't tell you the number of F/O's I have flown with who can program the hell out of the FMC's, but can't hand fly the plane worth a damn. When the screens go blank, you still have to fly the plane.

* The cockpit isn't the place to read the paper, flip through a magazine, listen to your iPod, iPad or whatever. The cockpit is where you listen, keep your head on a swivel and keep your eyes open. It's your office. Treat it with respect from your first lesson until the day you retire.

* An old WWII pilot I knew who flew with Chuck Yeager and Bob Hoover once told me that an honest pilot only logs IFR if he's truly IN the clouds or under the hood. No exceptions.

* Buy an E6-B. Learn how to use it. Never forget.

* Don't buy into the hype of ANY pilot mill. Learn the craft, work hard...plan on having to fly at some places for not a lot of money to learn the business...what you learn will save your butt in the long run.

* Think...and think ahead...don't let the magic do it for you. It will only give you answers based on the information you give it. And the information may be wrong, or change rapidly. Use the computer between your ears.

* Read Earnest K. Gann...

* Until you have that dream job, be willing to own nothing more than you can pack in your car and be ready to drive to a new job on 48 hours notice. Having toys is nice...needing to pay for them has kept more than one person tied to a job they hate. And that hate festers.

* Remember that no one forced this career path on you. Anyone who complains about it only needs look in the mirror to see the person who filled their heads with unrealistic expectations.

* Study the people you learn from and fly with. Emulate the positive traits and reject the bad. It will make you a better pilot and a respected F/O...and later, Captain. (Thanks for that advice, Dad)

There's more, but you will be able to figure it out as you go. Enjoy the sunsets, the sundogs and the smell of a good cup of coffee mixed with the smell of jet fuel in the early cold before the dawn and the warm glow of all the annunciators and the panel at dusk.

The career is what you make it, not what others didn't give you.


Good luck.
I could not possibly disagree with that more. Since we're making appeals to "higher powers" here, I personnally know of two F16 accidents (both fatal) due to spatial disorentation that were NOT in clouds. One of the best safety seminars I went to discussed "PVFR"-- pretend VFR. Yeah, technically you could have better than 1,000 and 3, but not have a prayer of keeping the airplane upright without the gauges.
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Old 04-20-2014 | 06:09 AM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by ATCsaidDoWhat
DreamtoFlyy..

I had originally planned on sending you a p/m on this, however after some thought decided to post it here.

Regarding this post from TallFlyer:



Excellent advice.

Some advice for what it's worth from an older head. Most of the posters have a chip on their shoulder. They came into the industry thinking they had a right to get what they wanted when they wanted it. They have no clue about the history of the profession and how each generation fought for this industry. As long as you don't fall into that mindset, you'll be fine.

A few suggestions:

* LEARN the history of the industry. Understand how pilots got to where they were and now are. Get your hands on "Flying the Line" Vol's 1 & 2. Yes, it's the history of ALPA and tells it from that perspective. You really need to understand it to understand the industry and how the past relates to the future. Big mistakes have been made by both sides. And a lot of the guys posting snark at you have no idea that it took decades for things to get good and not so long to get bad...and that you can't just wave a magic wand to make it right.

* Don't learn to fly in airplanes that are all "glass." A truly GOOD pilot learns to FLY the plane, not just how program it. I can't tell you the number of F/O's I have flown with who can program the hell out of the FMC's, but can't hand fly the plane worth a damn. When the screens go blank, you still have to fly the plane.

* The cockpit isn't the place to read the paper, flip through a magazine, listen to your iPod, iPad or whatever. The cockpit is where you listen, keep your head on a swivel and keep your eyes open. It's your office. Treat it with respect from your first lesson until the day you retire.

* An old WWII pilot I knew who flew with Chuck Yeager and Bob Hoover once told me that an honest pilot only logs IFR if he's truly IN the clouds or under the hood. No exceptions.

* Buy an E6-B. Learn how to use it. Never forget.

* Don't buy into the hype of ANY pilot mill. Learn the craft, work hard...plan on having to fly at some places for not a lot of money to learn the business...what you learn will save your butt in the long run.

* Think...and think ahead...don't let the magic do it for you. It will only give you answers based on the information you give it. And the information may be wrong, or change rapidly. Use the computer between your ears.

* Read Earnest K. Gann...

* Until you have that dream job, be willing to own nothing more than you can pack in your car and be ready to drive to a new job on 48 hours notice. Having toys is nice...needing to pay for them has kept more than one person tied to a job they hate. And that hate festers.

* Remember that no one forced this career path on you. Anyone who complains about it only needs look in the mirror to see the person who filled their heads with unrealistic expectations.

* Study the people you learn from and fly with. Emulate the positive traits and reject the bad. It will make you a better pilot and a respected F/O...and later, Captain. (Thanks for that advice, Dad)

There's more, but you will be able to figure it out as you go. Enjoy the sunsets, the sundogs and the smell of a good cup of coffee mixed with the smell of jet fuel in the early cold before the dawn and the warm glow of all the annunciators and the panel at dusk.

The career is what you make it, not what others didn't give you.


Good luck.
I can't argue with any of this advice but what exactly do you do in cruise for 2+ hours if you aren't reading/doing something?
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Old 04-20-2014 | 06:16 AM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by pagey
I can't argue with any of this advice but what exactly do you do in cruise for 2+ hours if you aren't reading/doing something?
I personally keep checking fuel (one of the things I do anyways) Fuel is life.
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Old 04-20-2014 | 06:24 AM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by Bzzt
Save yourself the trouble and just avoid the career not just republic. I'm 100% serious when I say if I could do it all over again, I wouldn't.
This is a terrible career, I agree.
Take heed of this man's words; if you do choose RAH, however, please do not come here and complain as you have been warned! I love when newbies complain(as if they weren't warned).
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Old 04-20-2014 | 06:58 AM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by ATCsaidDoWhat

Some advice for what it's worth from an older head. Most of the posters have a chip on their shoulder. They came into the industry thinking they had a right to get what they wanted when they wanted it. They have no clue about the history of the profession and how each generation fought for this industry. As long as you don't fall into that mindset, you'll be fine.
This is great advice. It's all about your attitude. I began my flying career at 31 after I realized my first career wasn't where my heart was. I'm still stuck at the regionals but I feel that will change soon enough. I'm ready to move on, but until that time I will continue to be the consummate professional.

As for the pilot mills, I went through ATP and found the experience to be an extreme challenge, but also very rewarding. I spent a little over 3 months flying and studying 12 hours a day without a day off. If you have the dedication to work hard, it's very doable. The one caveat is that ATP gets their money upfront and won't hold your hand through the process. You have to be disciplined enough to put the effort in.

This profession can have its ups and downs but ultimately you have to decide your attitude about it and your life.
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Old 04-20-2014 | 07:55 AM
  #69  
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The longer you wait, the more chance you have that DAL/UAL/AA will finance your training.
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Old 04-20-2014 | 08:30 AM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by atpcliff
The longer you wait, the more chance you have that DAL/UAL/AA will finance your training.
Sounds enticing.......explain, please....
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