Atlas Houston
07-16-2020, 07:41 AM
#182
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,286
Originally Posted by pangolin
No stall recognition and recovery training has you push 40 degrees nose down.
You can see why suicide was considered: he went hard-over nose down, while the CA broke the shear bolt trying to over-ride it.
I think they considered these aggregate items to reach the conclusion:
- Training history of innapropriate, impulsive actions.
- Initiating event of accidental TOGA activation. No reason for a suicidal pilot to hit TOGA.
- Lack of any obvious motive, ideation, or other indicators of suicide. It doesn't usually just happen instantly and impulsively, everybody in the mil has had the signs drilled into them and this doesn't fit. I suspected suicide initially when the aircraft data came out, but I expected they would find some corroborating info in his background or on the CVR. They didn't.
07-16-2020, 07:57 AM
#183
The NeverEnding Story
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,512
Originally Posted by rickair7777
You can see why suicide was considered: he went hard-over nose down, while the CA broke the shear bolt trying to over-ride it.
You know what was never on the CVR transcript? MY AIRCRAFT
07-16-2020, 09:46 AM
#184
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2012
Position: B767 - Captain
Posts: 138
Atlas Houston
Wait for the final findings. NTSB shouldn’t be putting information out in bits and pieces. Preliminary findings followed by final findings, sure. It’s obvious prior training and training in general is the largest and key consideration but context is paramount. Yes the CA “should say” my controls, but could he? If he wasn’t shoulder strapped in yet did his head hit the ceiling? Everything is speculation until there is context.
Cheers,
blink
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Cheers,
blink
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Last edited by blinkpilot182; 07-16-2020 at 09:48 AM. Reason: Content
07-16-2020, 05:19 PM
#185
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2017
Posts: 381
Originally Posted by blinkpilot182
Wait for the final findings. NTSB shouldn’t be putting information out in bits and pieces. Preliminary findings followed by final findings, sure. It’s obvious prior training and training in general is the largest and key consideration but context is paramount. Yes the CA “should say” my controls, but could he? If he wasn’t shoulder strapped in yet did his head hit the ceiling? Everything is speculation until there is context.
Cheers,
blink
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Cheers,
blink
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Go read it if you actually care to.
07-16-2020, 07:03 PM
#186
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 4,671
Originally Posted by BoilerUP
This is a great example of why "using your words" - promptly and assertively - matters.
You know what was never on the CVR transcript? MY AIRCRAFT
You know what was never on the CVR transcript? MY AIRCRAFT
And we'll never know.
But with WHAT WE DO KNOW, would it have mattered with this FO?
07-17-2020, 07:08 AM
#187
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,286
Originally Posted by blinkpilot182
Wait for the final findings. NTSB shouldn’t be putting information out in bits and pieces. Preliminary findings followed by final findings, sure.
https://go.usa.gov/xfbcb
07-17-2020, 11:54 AM
#188
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2019
Position: ATL FO
Posts: 189
How in any way was the captain at fault here aside from letting his moron of an FO touch anything besides comm 2 for the entire flight? Easy for Mr. Chairman with his Connecticut horned eye glasses to sit in his nice comfy chair thinking that simply stating “my controls” fixes all, but I’d like to see anyone recover that. Aside from throat punching Mr. Washout as soon as the GA was selected I don’t see how 40° nose down is salvageable when everything hits the ceiling and you’re just trying to figure out what’s going on.
07-17-2020, 02:10 PM
#189
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Position: CRJ9 CA
Posts: 4,083
Originally Posted by JonGoodsell764
How in any way was the captain at fault here aside from letting his moron of an FO touch anything besides comm 2 for the entire flight? Easy for Mr. Chairman with his Connecticut horned eye glasses to sit in his nice comfy chair thinking that simply stating “my controls” fixes all, but I’d like to see anyone recover that. Aside from throat punching Mr. Washout as soon as the GA was selected I don’t see how 40° nose down is salvageable when everything hits the ceiling and you’re just trying to figure out what’s going on.
I totally agree.
07-17-2020, 09:03 PM
#190
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: Volleyball Player
Posts: 3,982
Originally Posted by JonGoodsell764
How in any way was the captain at fault here aside from letting his moron of an FO touch anything besides comm 2 for the entire flight? Easy for Mr. Chairman with his Connecticut horned eye glasses to sit in his nice comfy chair thinking that simply stating “my controls” fixes all, but I’d like to see anyone recover that. Aside from throat punching Mr. Washout as soon as the GA was selected I don’t see how 40° nose down is salvageable when everything hits the ceiling and you’re just trying to figure out what’s going on.
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