Atlas Houston
12-19-2019, 05:27 PM
#12
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2015
Posts: 81
This is all just unbelievable, but all what many of us already had heard and expected:
12:38:04 Flaps 1 Selected
12:38:08 G/A Mode Armed
12:38:26 Accel Vert Turbulence
12:38:31 A/T G/A Mode Annun (means switch was hit)
12:38:37 5° Nose Pitch
12:38:38 First -2° Ctrl column deflection
12:38:38 Throttle Max Travel
12:38:43 Eng Reach 108% N1
12:38:43 -5° Elevator deflection
12:38:44 -0.25G
12:38:45 Throttle Min Travel
12:38:48 Elevators Split (CA up, FO down) / FO Says “We’re stalling” / Aircraft Speed 275 Knots
12:38:49 Throttle Max Travel
12:38:49 Eng Reach 85% N1
12:38:51 Attempted Pull Up to 1G from 42° Nose Low
12:38:52 Eng Reach 105% N1 / Nose Down Input
12:38:56 Eng N1 Begins Decr
12:38:57 Elevator positions match again
12:38:58 49° Nose Low / Recovery Initiated
12:38:59 Rapid 0G to 4G onset
12:39:03 Crash / 16° Nose Low / 435 Knots
Less than 1G from :41-52 and :53-59
Negative Elevator Deflection :39-52
-----
The split in elevator position from 12:38:47-:57 is conducive to yoke breakout happening, which requires 25 lbs of opposite yoke force. At 41 lbs the max elevator split is 20 degrees, and any further pressure from The captain’s side will override the FO through the mechanical advantage. The captain’s yoke broke at at some point through this, which makes sense with the elevator positions resuming similar deflection at 12:38:57
Ironically an Airliners.net post from 20 years ago discusses this exact scenario and how the breakout system would function through it:
https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19897
12:38:04 Flaps 1 Selected
12:38:08 G/A Mode Armed
12:38:26 Accel Vert Turbulence
12:38:31 A/T G/A Mode Annun (means switch was hit)
12:38:37 5° Nose Pitch
12:38:38 First -2° Ctrl column deflection
12:38:38 Throttle Max Travel
12:38:43 Eng Reach 108% N1
12:38:43 -5° Elevator deflection
12:38:44 -0.25G
12:38:45 Throttle Min Travel
12:38:48 Elevators Split (CA up, FO down) / FO Says “We’re stalling” / Aircraft Speed 275 Knots
12:38:49 Throttle Max Travel
12:38:49 Eng Reach 85% N1
12:38:51 Attempted Pull Up to 1G from 42° Nose Low
12:38:52 Eng Reach 105% N1 / Nose Down Input
12:38:56 Eng N1 Begins Decr
12:38:57 Elevator positions match again
12:38:58 49° Nose Low / Recovery Initiated
12:38:59 Rapid 0G to 4G onset
12:39:03 Crash / 16° Nose Low / 435 Knots
Less than 1G from :41-52 and :53-59
Negative Elevator Deflection :39-52
-----
The split in elevator position from 12:38:47-:57 is conducive to yoke breakout happening, which requires 25 lbs of opposite yoke force. At 41 lbs the max elevator split is 20 degrees, and any further pressure from The captain’s side will override the FO through the mechanical advantage. The captain’s yoke broke at at some point through this, which makes sense with the elevator positions resuming similar deflection at 12:38:57
Ironically an Airliners.net post from 20 years ago discusses this exact scenario and how the breakout system would function through it:
https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19897
12-19-2019, 06:03 PM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2017
Position: Retired NJA & AA
Posts: 1,912
PRIA must be useless, or airlines are just ignoring it and play dumb. I'm astounded he got hired at Atlas with that work record, they must be a lot more desperate than I thought. Ditto for Mesa. I hope this gets picked up by the media, maybe in conjunction with a story about the pilot shortage.
I'm also curious about the work records of the pilots involved in the runway overshoot at NAS JAX. That Captain with 13 years made about the same as a 3yr F/O at Delta.
I'm also curious about the work records of the pilots involved in the runway overshoot at NAS JAX. That Captain with 13 years made about the same as a 3yr F/O at Delta.
12-20-2019, 04:36 AM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2013
Posts: 316
Originally Posted by AirBear
PRIA must be useless, or airlines are just ignoring it and play dumb. I'm astounded he got hired at Atlas with that work record, they must be a lot more desperate than I thought. Ditto for Mesa. I hope this gets picked up by the media, maybe in conjunction with a story about the pilot shortage.
I'm also curious about the work records of the pilots involved in the runway overshoot at NAS JAX. That Captain with 13 years made about the same as a 3yr F/O at Delta.
I'm also curious about the work records of the pilots involved in the runway overshoot at NAS JAX. That Captain with 13 years made about the same as a 3yr F/O at Delta.
Also after his first failure at upgrade at Mesa, he either sued or threatened to sue for discrimination so they gave him a second chance, which he failed again.
Atlas attempted to terminate him, he sued for racial discrimination again, and retained his job.
12-20-2019, 04:38 AM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2013
Posts: 316
Originally Posted by Name User
I reordered the employment history and condensed it.
Definitely no red flags there at all. I though this sort of stuff is what the new background checks were supposed to fix after Colgan?
Fired from three carriers (CommutAir, Air Wisconsin, and TSA) and unable to upgrade at Mesa. Perfect hire into a widebody flying cargo though!
IMO the families of the other two have grounds to sue Atlas for hiring this guy.
- He was employed at InterCaribbean Airways June 2008 to June 2010 as an FO on the EMB-120, and according to the records was furloughed
- He was employed by Commutair from May 2011 to June 2011 as a DHC-8 FO, and did not complete DHC-8 training, submitting a resignation letter on June 2011 for “lack of progress in training.”
- He was employed by Air Wisconsin from April 2012 to August 2012 as a CRJ FO, and according to records he did not complete CRJ training and submitted a resignation letter on August 2012 citing personal reasons.
- Charter Air Transport in Orlando, Florida from February 2013 to March 2014 as an FO on the EMB-120
- Trans State Airlines in Bridgeton, Missouri from March 2014 to September 2014 as an FO on the EMB-145
- Trans States training records provided to Atlas Air, the FO was graded unsatisfactory on his EMB-145 type rating oral examination on April 2014, was graded unsatisfactory on his EMB-145 ATP check ride on May 2014, and was graded unsatisfactory on his EMB-145 line checks on August 2014 and September 2014.
- Mesa Airlines - February 2015 until he was hired by Atlas Air, and flew as an FO on the EMB-175 at Mesa Airlines.
- FO attempted to upgrade to captain on the EMB-175 in May 2017, and was graded unsatisfactory after two simulator sessions and returned to the line as an EMB-175 FO. According to Mesa Airlines records, the FO left Mesa Airlines for “career growth.”
- The FO was 44 years old and resided in Miami, Florida. His date of hire with Atlas Air was July 3, 2017.
Definitely no red flags there at all. I though this sort of stuff is what the new background checks were supposed to fix after Colgan?
Fired from three carriers (CommutAir, Air Wisconsin, and TSA) and unable to upgrade at Mesa. Perfect hire into a widebody flying cargo though!
IMO the families of the other two have grounds to sue Atlas for hiring this guy.
12-20-2019, 05:15 AM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Posts: 666
Originally Posted by Name User
I have to imagine there will be no media attention to this. It's good no one was killed on the ground but imagine if they augured in in downtown Houston killing hundreds on the ground. Maybe stuff would change. Maybe.
12-20-2019, 05:21 AM
#18
On Reserve
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Posts: 19
Originally Posted by AirBear
PRIA must be useless, or airlines are just ignoring it and play dumb. I'm astounded he got hired at Atlas with that work record, they must be a lot more desperate than I thought. Ditto for Mesa. I hope this gets picked up by the media, maybe in conjunction with a story about the pilot shortage.
I'm also curious about the work records of the pilots involved in the runway overshoot at NAS JAX. That Captain with 13 years made about the same as a 3yr F/O at Delta.
I'm also curious about the work records of the pilots involved in the runway overshoot at NAS JAX. That Captain with 13 years made about the same as a 3yr F/O at Delta.
PRIA is only as good as the companies that the applicant reports. Unfortunately, if the applicant doesn’t tell the employer of a job, they won’t know to ask for the records.
12-20-2019, 05:24 AM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2019
Position: Poolside
Posts: 534
Originally Posted by UAL T38 Phlyer
The report also says the autopilot was engaged from the initial turbulence and TOGA activation until impact.. 
I’m wondering if the breakout was because the AP was still engaged.
I’m wondering if the breakout was because the AP was still engaged.
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