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Ukraine bound 737 crashes leaving Tehran

Old 01-11-2020, 10:29 AM
  #61  
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Looks like it was IRGC, no real surprise there.
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Old 01-11-2020, 11:55 AM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by rickair7777
All my previous comments aside, I don't blame them one bit for throwing out the Shah (and the US) in '79. That was old-skool CIA adventurism, necessitated by the cold war (under the circumstances I don't really blame our guys for doing what they had to in order to contain the soviets either).

But their autocratic regime is still riding the revolutionary pony 40 years later to keep the people focused on an external bogeyman to maintain their gangster-state control. If they didn't do that, their people would likely start focusing on regime change to something more moderate (the people actually tried ten years ago, coincidentally there was soon another rash of external bad behavior on the part Qods, MOIS, and proxies).
The Iranian people in general are pro-western and (used to) like us. Doing what we did further serves to unite them against the west.

They aren't Muslim, they are Persian which is different.

Iran wants nukes for the same reason North Korea does, they are tired of being pushed around. You think we would've killed their general had they had a cache of nuclear weapons? Ha.

But Americans are gonna American and jump and on the chest pounding bandwagon (examples above).

As far as attacking our embassy goes, that would be an issue internally in the country it happened in IMO. If the embassy can't be protected, it shouldn't be there.

Iraq is now asking us to leave permanently. This is going to have long term blowback.

Our plan of attack is beyond humorous. Remember we started all of this after 9/11. The hijackers were Saudi's. Iran and SA are enemies. Yet we are still "friends" with SA and in a sort of proxy war with Iran.

Only in America.
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Old 01-11-2020, 12:20 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by Name User

They aren't Muslim, they are Persian which is different.
I'll let others engage you on the other points, but Iranians are most certainly a majority Muslim. Being Muslim means you follow Islam, and has nothing to do with ethnicity.

You are correct that Iranians are Persian. What they are not, is Arab.
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Old 01-11-2020, 02:50 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by Name User

They aren't Muslim, they are Persian which is different.
Obviously I know that very well. But the large majority are Shia muslims, with minority Sunni, Christian, Jew, Zorastrian, etc. Plus some non-persian ethnic groups including Arabs and Kurds.

But their persian-ness sure doesn't keep them from dreaming about reviving a (Shia) caliphate. They want the US out because they (the regime) could then roll up all of their gulf neighbors and rule the ME.

Originally Posted by Name User
Iran wants nukes for the same reason North Korea does, they are tired of being pushed around. You think we would've killed their general had they had a cache of nuclear weapons?
Sure we would have. Their general was operating in a third country conspiring to kill Americans with no declared war, ie state-sponsored terror. That particular general has been murdering Americans in an undeclared war since at least 2008 (unfortunately somebody set a bad precedent and let him get away with it). He has even killed on US soil, but was smart enough to stick to Iranian refugee/agitators. Although he *almost* succeeded in bombing a power-lunch restaurant in DC a few years ago. He was targeting a Saudi but would have also killed, wounded, or endangered some DC elites, potentially members of congress or senior executives depending on who was having lunch that day.

I'm no Trump fan but he sure got this one right (I'm 100% confident Esper and Pompeo were behind this one).


Originally Posted by Name User
As far as attacking our embassy goes, that would be an issue internally in the country it happened in IMO. If the embassy can't be protected, it shouldn't be there.
100% wrong. Embassies are sovereign territory. It's a fine distinction but a very important one. It's what got them in trouble in the first place.

Originally Posted by Name User
But Americans are gonna American and jump and on the chest pounding bandwagon (examples above).

Our plan of attack is beyond humorous. Remember we started all of this after 9/11. The hijackers were Saudi's. Iran and SA are enemies. Yet we are still "friends" with SA and in a sort of proxy war with Iran.

Only in America.


If you hate America so much why don't you apply for asylum in one of the peace-loving utopian societies you keep fawning over?
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Old 01-11-2020, 03:00 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by kaputt
You are correct that Iranians are Persian. What they are not, is Arab.
That was made emphatically clear by an Iranian in our UPT class.
When somebody asked him a question about the Shah, he clammed up and whispered “Shhhh...SAVAK”.
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Old 01-11-2020, 04:56 PM
  #66  
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I think one of the Shah's kids went through UPT.
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Old 01-11-2020, 05:07 PM
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Large amounts of anti-govt protestors out in the streets in Iran right now.
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Old 01-11-2020, 05:39 PM
  #68  
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Off topic, but Name User could study the long history of Persians violating the long-established “rights of embassy”. Goes back to Genghis Khan who taught them a lesson after killing his ambassadors.

GF
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Old 01-11-2020, 06:07 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by badflaps
I think one of the Shah's kids went through UPT.
I've trained Arab princes myself. If you could fly military hardware just for the asking, why not? For the country in question though they were smart about it... even princes had to excel in crewed aircraft before they let them anywhere near the fast movers.
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Old 01-11-2020, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by kaputt
I'll let others engage you on the other points, but Iranians are most certainly a majority Muslim. Being Muslim means you follow Islam, and has nothing to do with ethnicity.

You are correct that Iranians are Persian. What they are not, is Arab.
Yep meant they aren't Arab.
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