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737-400 cargo jet emergency landing in ocean


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737-400 cargo jet emergency landing in ocean

Old 12-27-2022, 01:11 PM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by Round Luggage
There are sweeping generalizations in this thread.
A brilliant contribution there, brightspark. Elaborate.
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Old 12-27-2022, 01:22 PM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by cougar
Another example of why it makes sense to match thrust levers after an engine has been secured:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io71Bh-9bUs
Yup, we trained accident by how we flew LP. One common training event was 3-engine approach, landing or go-around with an engine idled to simulate the failed engine. Most IPs always failed 1 or 4, as it was most challenging on the 3-engine go. That DOV was partly on the training profiles, the lack of CRM, too. If the PF had all four throttles open hand, it wouldn’t have happened.
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Old 12-27-2022, 04:12 PM
  #123  
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Originally Posted by galaxy flyer
Yup, we trained accident by how we flew LP. One common training event was 3-engine approach, landing or go-around with an engine idled to simulate the failed engine. Most IPs always failed 1 or 4, as it was most challenging on the 3-engine go. That DOV was partly on the training profiles, the lack of CRM, too. If the PF had all four throttles open hand, it wouldn’t have happened.
But how do you match levers when the engine is running at idle. That's the problem. But there is another rare safety issue when in flight simulated engine out work is done. I'm the IP on a T-38 ride and we come back to do a SE overhead (before they were banned). Make it around final turn and roll out with airspeed trending down. "Airspeed", "power" with no response so, "I got it" grab the idle lever and match both while cramming them into max AB. I ignored the screaming until we were stable. What's the matter? My hand is stuck. Got him free with no permanent damage.
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Old 12-27-2022, 04:51 PM
  #124  
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Originally Posted by 1wife2airlines
But how do you match levers when the engine is running at idle. That's the problem. But there is another rare safety issue when in flight simulated engine out work is done. I'm the IP on a T-38 ride and we come back to do a SE overhead (before they were banned). Make it around final turn and roll out with airspeed trending down. "Airspeed", "power" with no response so, "I got it" grab the idle lever and match both while cramming them into max AB. I ignored the screaming until we were stable. What's the matter? My hand is stuck. Got him free with no permanent damage.
You don't match the power levers when doing simulated engine-out, one engine-at idle. Obviously.

In a transport category Boeing, we don't do that. We have a simulator, and in the simulator, when we have severe engine damage, an engine failure, or a fire, we shut the engine down in a four-step memory procedure that disconnects the autothrottle, retards a thrust lever to verify engine response or lack thereof, fuel-chop the engine with the fuel control, and as appropriate, t-handle the engine to shut off fuel, hydraulic, and electric. It's the manufacturer procedure, it's how the training is done, and it's how the aircraft is flown. We don't typically go do it in the airplane because it's a lot easier on airplanes, and a lot less expensive, and a lot safer, to do it in a simulator. Consequently, there's no real concern with flying around with one thrust lever at idle while we "simulate" an engine shutdown. It IS shutdown.

I can't see a valid reason to idle a suspected engine failure/fire/severe damage, when the procedure clearly involves shutting it down and securing it. That done, once secured and the fuel control has been placed to cutoff, then the thrust lever can be returned to the pilot flying so that he has the same fist full of throttles that he had when both were working.
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Old 12-27-2022, 06:57 PM
  #125  
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[QUOTE=JohnBurke;3560745]You don't match the power levers when doing simulated engine-out, one engine-at idle. Obviously.

Yes that should be obvious. Just be careful of pinkies and such.
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Old 12-28-2022, 04:47 PM
  #126  
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ON the CRJ fuel cutoff is achieved by lifting the red lever on the back of the affected thrust lever and moving the lever aft to cutoff position, releasing the red lever locks the thrust lever in the cutoff position. Boeing, Embraer and Airbus have separate fuel cutoff levers/knobs that would allow the affected trust lever to still be moved in coordination with the good one.
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Old 06-18-2023, 06:00 AM
  #127  
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Final report is out: "We ​​determined the probable cause(s) of this accident to be: The flight crewmembers’ misidentification of the damaged engine (after leveling off the airplane and reducing thrust) and their use of only the damaged engine for thrust during the remainder of the flight, resulting in an unintentional descent and forced ditching in the Pacific Ocean. Contributing to the accident were the flight crew’s ineffective crew resource management, high workload, and stress."
DCA21FA174.aspx (ntsb.gov)
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Old 06-18-2023, 06:19 AM
  #128  
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Originally Posted by simuflite
Final report is out: "We ​​determined the probable cause(s) of this accident to be: The flight crewmembers’ misidentification of the damaged engine (after leveling off the airplane and reducing thrust) and their use of only the damaged engine for thrust during the remainder of the flight, resulting in an unintentional descent and forced ditching in the Pacific Ocean. Contributing to the accident were the flight crew’s ineffective crew resource management, high workload, and stress."
DCA21FA174.aspx (ntsb.gov)
As well all said it would be
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Old 06-21-2023, 12:39 PM
  #129  
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Originally Posted by simuflite
Final report is out: "We ​​determined the probable cause(s) of this accident to be: The flight crewmembers’ misidentification of the damaged engine (after leveling off the airplane and reducing thrust) and their use of only the damaged engine for thrust during the remainder of the flight, resulting in an unintentional descent and forced ditching in the Pacific Ocean. Contributing to the accident were the flight crew’s ineffective crew resource management, high workload, and stress."
DCA21FA174.aspx (ntsb.gov)
It’s gonna be interesting to see if the FAA grants the certificate holder the ability to resume operation of their 737s now that the final report is out. I can’t imagine anybody would want to fly for them anyways. The other 737 cargo operator has basically doubled their aircraft in HNL and appear to be dominating the market.
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Old 06-22-2023, 01:03 AM
  #130  
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Originally Posted by Hawaii808
It’s gonna be interesting to see if the FAA grants the certificate holder the ability to resume operation of their 737s now that the final report is out. I can’t imagine anybody would want to fly for them anyways. The other 737 cargo operator has basically doubled their aircraft in HNL and appear to be dominating the market.
Considering they revoked the certificate a few months ago I don't see that happening. TR did himself a huge disservice by continuing to operate with a 70s/90s mentality in the 2020s. Stepping over dollars to pick up pennies has been proven to be a losing strategy in the long term.

Also, when I was loudly proclaiming the day after that the only cause possible was a mis-ID of the failed engine so many told me I was crazy - guess I'm not that crazy... I can sleep well tonight.
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