Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Pilot Lounge > Safety
“Snort” Snodgrass Killed in Airplane Accident >

“Snort” Snodgrass Killed in Airplane Accident

Notices
Safety Accidents, suggestions on improving safety, etc

“Snort” Snodgrass Killed in Airplane Accident

Old 08-10-2021, 08:08 AM
  #11  
Gets Weekends Off
 
JamesNoBrakes's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: Volleyball Player
Posts: 3,982
Default

Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post
Or jammed (or gust lock)? I saw no oscillations, the plane seemed to just fly itself off and then pitch up without the usual taildragger pitch level maneuver prior to unstick.

Although you' think he'd reject the T/O if the controls were frozen when he tried to level the nose on the roll. Or try to reverse the controls, people have managed to figure that out before.

I'd like to think a guy like that might have had the reactions to identify and remove the gust lock quickly enough on the fly. Probably depends on the gust lock design though, no idea for that plane.
Maybe, but unfortunately I've seen the scenario before. Holding forward stick to keep it on the ground and have the tail come up, but with controls reversed it "jumps off the ground" unexpectedly and then the pilot pushes the stick/control all the way forward quickly...which brings it to a steep stall/spin. If that's the case, it does go to checklist, as I'm not sure it's realistic to re-wire your brain that fast to realize the controls are reversed.
JamesNoBrakes is offline  
Old 08-10-2021, 08:17 AM
  #12  
Gets Weekends Off
 
trip's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,236
Default

Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post
Or jammed (or gust lock)? I saw no oscillations, the plane seemed to just fly itself off and then pitch up without the usual taildragger pitch level maneuver prior to unstick.

Although you' think he'd reject the T/O if the controls were frozen when he tried to level the nose on the roll. Or try to reverse the controls, people have managed to figure that out before.

I'd like to think a guy like that might have had the reactions to identify and remove the gust lock quickly enough on the fly. Probably depends on the gust lock design though, no idea for that plane.
I've read the type gust lock on that plane flips up from the floor and effectively also depresses the brakes so the plane won't even roll? Hopefully there wasn't a seatbelt around the aft stick or something. The investigators should be able to sort this one out.
trip is offline  
Old 08-10-2021, 09:03 AM
  #13  
Line Holder
 
Electrickjet's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jun 2013
Position: B777 CA, Ret.
Posts: 77
Default

Sudden aft CG change?
Electrickjet is offline  
Old 08-10-2021, 09:22 AM
  #14  
Gets Weekends Off
 
JamesNoBrakes's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: Volleyball Player
Posts: 3,982
Default

Originally Posted by Electrickjet View Post
Sudden aft CG change?
Short of the engine block falling off, there doesn't appear to be enough space in the fuselage for something in the cabin to shift significantly. Seats not locked in the rails and falling/sliding back during takeoff, but that wouldn't really explain why the aircraft leapt off without first raising the tail. That could be technique, but it's usually not a very common one.
JamesNoBrakes is offline  
Old 08-11-2021, 09:15 AM
  #15  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
klondike's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: in a Big Box that moves back,forth, up, down and makes cool sounds
Posts: 352
Default

Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post
Or jammed (or gust lock)? I saw no oscillations, the plane seemed to just fly itself off and then pitch up without the usual taildragger pitch level maneuver prior to unstick.

Although you' think he'd reject the T/O if the controls were frozen when he tried to level the nose on the roll. Or try to reverse the controls, people have managed to figure that out before.

I'd like to think a guy like that might have had the reactions to identify and remove the gust lock quickly enough on the fly. Probably depends on the gust lock design though, no idea for that plane.
Hi Rick,

The guy with the YouTube channel called “blancolirio” did a really nice analysis and found that the gust lock system on that aircraft also locks the rudder pedals. He showed that it would be highly unlikely to impossible to even taxi the airplane with the gust lock still in place.
klondike is offline  
Old 08-11-2021, 09:22 AM
  #16  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
klondike's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: in a Big Box that moves back,forth, up, down and makes cool sounds
Posts: 352
Default

Originally Posted by trip View Post
I've read the type gust lock on that plane flips up from the floor and effectively also depresses the brakes so the plane won't even roll? Hopefully there wasn't a seatbelt around the aft stick or something. The investigators should be able to sort this one out.
you are right about the gust lock on system on this particular type of airplane.

i would also say that if the rear seat was wrapped around the stick the FRONT stick would also be full aft. I’m thinking he would have seen that.

I’m thinking that perhaps he left the elevator pitch trim in the full nose up setting- perhaps from the previous landing?
With the elevator trim in the full aft position, the nose would pitch off the ground very rapidly as we saw in the video.

Also, I thought perhaps he inputted some nose-up trim and then perhaps it ran away full nose up deflection.

What throws the trim theory in question though is that there was seemingly no nose down elevator input to at least try to overcome the severe pitch up.
klondike is offline  
Old 08-11-2021, 09:36 AM
  #17  
Gets Weekends Off
 
USMCFLYR's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,837
Default

Anybody else the distinct LACK of any control surface movement during the takeoff sequence, airborne or even during the impact?
I don't think 'control lock' issue, control surface issue caused by xxxxxx, and that is where the NTSB comes in.
USMCFLYR is offline  
Old 08-11-2021, 11:17 AM
  #18  
Occasional box hauler
 
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,695
Default

Originally Posted by USMCFLYR View Post
Anybody else the distinct LACK of any control surface movement during the takeoff sequence, airborne or even during the impact?
I don't think 'control lock' issue, control surface issue caused by xxxxxx, and that is where the NTSB comes in.
Could have simply been a massive heart attack that caused him to reflexively yank the stick back. Stranger things have happened to younger men.
tnkrdrvr is online now  
Old 08-11-2021, 01:00 PM
  #19  
Prime Minister/Moderator
 
rickair7777's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,420
Default

Originally Posted by tnkrdrvr View Post
Could have simply been a massive heart attack that caused him to reflexively yank the stick back. Stranger things have happened to younger men.
The audio sounds like he was not incapacitated.
rickair7777 is offline  
Old 08-11-2021, 01:03 PM
  #20  
Prime Minister/Moderator
 
rickair7777's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,420
Default

Originally Posted by USMCFLYR View Post
Anybody else the distinct LACK of any control surface movement during the takeoff sequence, airborne or even during the impact?
I don't think 'control lock' issue, control surface issue caused by xxxxxx, and that is where the NTSB comes in.
Yeah that's what I think I saw. Sounds like gust lock design precludes that, so back to jammed controls.
rickair7777 is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
WatchThis!
Hangar Talk
69
11-03-2008 04:46 PM
boost
Cargo
1
02-01-2008 03:38 PM
SWAjet
Corporate
40
05-02-2007 05:01 AM
bkjm2528
Regional
9
02-20-2007 08:48 AM
RockBottom
Major
25
06-22-2006 06:29 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Your Privacy Choices