Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Pilot Lounge > Safety
Med Jet Lear 35A down @ El Cajon/Gillespie >

Med Jet Lear 35A down @ El Cajon/Gillespie

Notices
Safety Accidents, suggestions on improving safety, etc

Med Jet Lear 35A down @ El Cajon/Gillespie

Old 12-28-2021, 07:25 PM
  #1  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
Joined APC: Dec 2017
Position: Retired NJA & AA
Posts: 1,135
Default Med Jet Lear 35A down @ El Cajon/Gillespie

Kathryn's Report: Learjet 35A, N880Z: Fatal accident occurred December 27, 2021 in El Cajon, San Diego County, California

Gillespie Field. Pilot broke out on approach to 17 and asked for VFR to 27R. Asked for runway lights to be made brighter, tower said they were maxed out. Seems to have lost control, Pilot uttered several profanities then screamed.
Some commenters familiar with this airport say it requires a very steep descent to do that maneuver.

Edit: Juan Browne (AA 777 F/O) has a video about this up on his "blancolirio" YouTube Channel:

https://youtu.be/lalLdpFAryI

Last edited by AirBear; 12-28-2021 at 07:35 PM.
AirBear is offline  
Old 12-28-2021, 09:40 PM
  #2  
All is fine at .79
 
TiredSoul's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Position: Paahlot
Posts: 3,049
Default

Was discussing this with a buddy who is familiar with the airport.
Circling at night is prohibited.
Crew flew the GPS17 then cancelled IFR to “maneuver” for runway 27 which is the longer one.
LOC27 requires a 7(!) degree descent angle from 2500’ 3NM from the threshold with rapidly rising terrain.
From what I under this was their home airport where the plane was based.
I’ve never flown a Lear but it’s my understanding from people that have flown the -35 that you need lots of power when cranking and banking in landing configuration.
Doorbell camera shows the crash and the marginal weather:
https://youtu.be/jpsvGPPQxyo
TiredSoul is offline  
Old 12-29-2021, 09:24 AM
  #3  
Prime Minister/Moderator
 
rickair7777's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 31,550
Default

Sketchy AF. Big hill on 27R extended CL, maybe 3 miles out. Same hill rises north of CL. You cannot start the base late, and you cannot overshoot.

I've done it in a cessna, but in a lear at night??? With weather??? YHGTBSM.
rickair7777 is offline  
Old 12-29-2021, 11:33 AM
  #4  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
Joined APC: Dec 2017
Position: Retired NJA & AA
Posts: 1,135
Default

Sketchy is an understatement.

Dan Gryder has a video out about this accident. He's calling for better training at the various Sim facilities. Dan doesn't edit out the final radio calls. He also goes into details about this 1985 LearJet. It did not come with T/R's but could have had them retrofitted. No way that jet even with T/R's could have landed on 17 from the RNAV. It's 4145 feet and it was wet. Since night circle is prohibited they went VFR for 27R which is only marginally better at 5342'. Also, the 2 pax were nurses. The Jet was returning to home base after a trip.

https://youtu.be/8pS17RPgqfI?list=TL...MjEaXI7IyDawwA
AirBear is offline  
Old 12-29-2021, 03:38 PM
  #5  
Gets Weekends Off
 
captjns's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
Posts: 5,476
Default

Originally Posted by AirBear View Post
Sketchy is an understatement.

Dan Gryder has a video out about this accident. He's calling for better training at the various Sim facilities. Dan doesn't edit out the final radio calls. He also goes into details about this 1985 LearJet. It did not come with T/R's but could have had them retrofitted. No way that jet even with T/R's could have landed on 17 from the RNAV. It's 4145 feet and it was wet. Since night circle is prohibited they went VFR for 27R which is only marginally better at 5342'. Also, the 2 pax were nurses. The Jet was returning to home base after a trip.

https://youtu.be/8pS17RPgqfI?list=TL...MjEaXI7IyDawwA
Dan Gryder is to air accident theories is what Nancy Grace is to Fox News…. BS.
captjns is offline  
Old 12-29-2021, 11:16 PM
  #6  
Gets Weekends Off
 
paulcg77's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Position: A shack in Kailua
Posts: 223
Default

Originally Posted by AirBear View Post
Edit: Juan Browne (AA 777 F/O) has a video about this up on his "blancolirio" YouTube Channel:

https://youtu.be/lalLdpFAryI
Juan is good people and this was a solid video blog, thanks for posting.
paulcg77 is offline  
Old 12-30-2021, 07:37 AM
  #7  
Gets Weekends Off
 
cardiomd's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Position: Seat: Vegan friendly faux leather
Posts: 969
Default

Originally Posted by paulcg77 View Post
Juan is good people and this was a solid video blog, thanks for posting.
I agree, of all the armchair pilot quarterbacks he is consistently respectful, non-sensational, and thoughtful without going into nutball theories or having some weird personal agenda to the videos. If reasoned speculation offends you, simply don't watch.

AOPA does some fantastic safety videos also that are always worth a watch, sometimes in response to crashes.
cardiomd is offline  
Old 12-30-2021, 04:21 PM
  #8  
Speed, Power, Accuracy
 
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: PIC
Posts: 1,405
Default

Originally Posted by captjns View Post
Dan Gryder is to air accident theories is what Nancy Grace is to Fox News…. BS.
I am ANYTHING but his biggest fan but he makes some good points on this one.
GeeWizDriver is offline  
Old 12-30-2021, 04:56 PM
  #9  
All is fine at .79
 
TiredSoul's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Position: Paahlot
Posts: 3,049
Default

If this was ‘accepted operations’ then the FAA needs to after their 135 certificate.
This wasn’t the first time they did this, it was the last though.
TiredSoul is offline  
Old 12-30-2021, 06:57 PM
  #10  
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
 
Joined APC: Dec 2017
Position: Retired NJA & AA
Posts: 1,135
Default

Here's another good video on this accident by a pilot I haven't seen on YouTube before. He has some good info though. Read his notes below the video. They show that the Lear was only 340' AGL at the threshold of 17 when the cancelled and went VFR. Downwind they were 400AGL, the last datapoint when they were turning base had them at 560AGL. The Jet was also just 0.8NM from the runway on downwind. Night Pattern altitude was 1388MSL, 1000AGL. He discusses a perceptual problem when coming in too low that leads to being too tight.

https://youtu.be/8-kVsCi41i0
AirBear is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
turk
Flight Schools and Training
29
01-13-2012 06:58 AM
698jet
Hiring News
3
03-22-2008 06:20 AM
vagabond
Pilot Health
1
03-05-2008 02:36 PM
698jet
Hiring News
6
02-26-2008 10:17 AM
joel payne
Hangar Talk
0
11-06-2006 07:18 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread