I don't believe it was taken out of context... you flat out said, and I'm paraphrasing, that because there was no catastrophic outcome then all was well. That's a very misguided attitude.

As far as us in time finding out why things happened the way they did, at least in the NWA case it's glaringly obvious. I'm still waiting to hear one solitary plausible explanation for the sequence of events besides them being asleep.

 

That seems to be the FAA's position.... especially if went unpublicized.

 

I dont think it is pointless...............

It clearly shows how sick and tired and fustrated Regional pilots are of being treated as second class pilots by these ego tripped Legacy pilots that judge all Regional pilots as kids playing being Airline pilots before and more after the Colgan crash.

If you are a Regional pilot in any big Airport in the US you must have noticed the change in how the legacy pilots more and more look the other way when seing a Regional pilot after the Colgan crash. ( No , I do not care a bit about it). The legacy pilots do not want anything to do with the "Regional Pilots" and hate if people/the public sees them as equals. They have surly shown by words and attitude that they believe to be near gods and so much better than those "false Airline pilots" called Regional Pilots.

I believe that the Delta landing on the Taxiway and the NorthWest overflying by 150 miles is just what was needed to take these gods of aviation down to earth again.

Now suddenly we have issues with legacy pilots showing that they by no means are gods better trained or more experienced than many many Regional pilots. Bad attitude in relation to your job has nothing to do with the size of the Airline you work for.

To call Regionals and Legacy "different levels" is just being ignorant. Regional pilots work is more demanding and many times performed in more advanced or more demanding equipment. The only "different level" is the pay.

I have personaly seen the most horrible examples of pilots while jumpseating on Legacy carriers and I am sure that legacy pilots have seen the same jumpseating on Regionals.

I do have to agree with them that say that Legacy pilots are given much more leeway than Regional pilots in the same situation.

I believe that at the Moment the FAA and congress are in a state of shock and cannot understand the situation. They believed so strongly that Regionals pilots are the incompetent unexperienced ones that are only in the Regional level just getting experience and waiting to get to the Legacy and that the Legacy pilots are the "Real Pilots" and the "cream of the cream". The ones that land an AirBus in the river and saves everyone.

It must be like that...(they say to themselves)....they have even been in Congress and told us about how inexperienced and dangerous the Regional pilots are............

poor Congress people

Now the earth is not flat anymore.................

How can these Legacy Macho Super pilots be doing these mistakes now??

Suddenly they have made everything so complicated.......now the FAA will have to sit in the Sims at the Legacy level too and check over their training etc etc.......like the FAA did not have enough work with the Regionals..........

I wonder how the bill will be affected..............

Now suddenly it may show that the 1500 hours does not give any guarantee against tremendous incidents and that it is just a number and that you can do all kind of mistakes even if you have 15000 hours...(like we did not know that before)

Wonder what comes out of all this if it is proven that these two crews of ATP high hours pilots made the mistakes causing the taxiway landing and the 150 miles overfly. If it is proven to be pilot errors then it will give another dimention to the debate around the Congress bill.

Maybe all this will open many eyes............

Would love to Hear that arrogant US Airways FO in Congress after this is investigated.............

 

I'd like him to explain why he, a much higher quality/caliber pilot , was sitting there trying to run checklist while the other guy was handling the radios and flying it into a river.

 

After reading this entire thread I have come to one conclusion: every single pilot in the world is human and thus prone to mistakes. I have nothing more to say.

 

Good point, don't know how many times it needs to be said. Highly experienced/trained crews can bend metal/kill people just as good as those that aren't. Often times, the ONLY thing that separates the outcome is pure luck, not skill/experience. The skill/experience should have prevented many mishaps that have happened in the first place.

Sadly, due to certain events, there has come an prevailing mentality that ONLY "regional" pilots are dangerous, untrained/incompetent, and make mistakes and the "major" pilots are exempt. Seriously, read some of the threads that have beat the issue to death. Some have said they REFUSE to put their family on or commute on a "regional", and will gladly 2 leg a commute on a "major" than ride on their "regional" affiliate to get home or to work.

These two recent events do NOTHING but debunk that ignorant mentality.

 

But wait. Top Gun were Nav.....oh never mind.

 

I don't think all major pilots think of themselves as better aviators than regional guys but facts are facts:

Regional pilots are proportionately far less experienced than major pilots.

Regional pilots only operrate in one theater, no transoceanic or international experience at all.

Regional airline pilots proportionately are less educated than major pilots because the companies regional pilots fly for don't require higher education.

Regional pilots have far greater instances of failed training events and accidents that prevent them from flying for the majors. Those pilots are kept at the regional level.

And most importantly regional airline pilots have for decades accepted substandard pay, benefits and retirements despite decades of being able to raise the bar.


Are they worse aviators, for the most part no, are they of less of a caliber than their major brothers.......well unfortunately yes. Not all but far too many.

 

This would be a true statement, for the most part.

This is an incorrect statement, as well as not at all valid for these two most recent incidents.

There was also a time where the majors didn't place a premium on being "educated". Is that the reason why the accident rate in the 50's/60's was higher than today?

And how many pilots at the majors have had bad days in the sim, or had to retrain but a failure never went on their record due to AQP, or are simply problem children and if it wasn't for union representation would have been fired long ago?

Again, this is simply NOT a valid statement and will take this thread off track in a hurry. Who gave up scope? How many "regionals" have been forced into concessions and seen their CBA's that raised the bar get destroyed due to not only their inept management, as well as the management at the company they provide feed for? Your argument simply is not based on experience, nor observation of what BOTH sides of the coin (major/regional) have faced. Especially since 9/11.

Wow....just..wow

 

Nah....It's Pointless.