Second door-maybe now it's not too expensive
05-08-2017, 01:08 PM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 767 Captain
Posts: 3,988
Originally Posted by glasspilot
RI830, I don't know why you're going off on a tangent in this thread. It is about protecting against a mentally ill pilot from being alone in the cockpit. Also, I believe, it's about one person up front and he/she becomes very ill/dies. The US has been doing the 2 person CP since 9/11. Not sure why the Europeans feel it's such a big deal to implement.
And yes, RI830 is off on a huge tangent.
05-11-2017, 12:13 AM
#43
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Position: A320 Left
Posts: 97
Originally Posted by glasspilot
RI830, I don't know why you're going off on a tangent in this thread. It is about protecting against a mentally ill pilot from being alone in the cockpit. Also, I believe, it's about one person up front and he/she becomes very ill/dies. The US has been doing the 2 person CP since 9/11. Not sure why the Europeans feel it's such a big deal to implement.
And unlike in the US the reinforced doors were introduced with the requirement (at least in germany, ireland as the "africa of europe" handles things differently) that pilots from their seat can visually inspect the entrance areas and those that want to enter the flight deck, as well as being able to open the door and refuse entry. All installations i know have at least three cameras for the entry area. Even an incapacitation is not a big issue as an emergency code allows reentry from the oudside in that case.
05-11-2017, 04:13 AM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: MD-80 CA, Retired
Posts: 106
Originally Posted by Denti
You really believe a person with just 4 weeks of training as flight attendant, the cheapest and fastest background check possible and an iranian passport (or turkish, polish, ukrainian etc) is fit to assess the mental state of a pilot?
"Had there been a FA right there with him, his insecurities would probably have prevented him from carrying out the crash. (Just conjecture) but based on the facts presented about him so far, it's very plausible he wouldn't have done this with a FA present."
06-12-2017, 06:41 PM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,273
Originally Posted by glasspilot
Denti, the second person is not there to be a medical genius. Just to "watch". I think ShyGuy said it best in post #20:
"Had there been a FA right there with him, his insecurities would probably have prevented him from carrying out the crash. (Just conjecture) but based on the facts presented about him so far, it's very plausible he wouldn't have done this with a FA present."
"Had there been a FA right there with him, his insecurities would probably have prevented him from carrying out the crash. (Just conjecture) but based on the facts presented about him so far, it's very plausible he wouldn't have done this with a FA present."
06-12-2017, 08:23 PM
#46
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,286
Originally Posted by sailingfun
He is going to kill himself and everyone onboard and a flight attendant in the cockpit would have prevented it because he was insecure?
06-14-2017, 01:54 AM
#48
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Position: A320 Left
Posts: 97
Yeah, that works really well. Not. We had already an incident in germany where an FA thought the remaining pilot did something wrong (he followed an ATC descend clearance) and forcibly tried to remove him from the controls, including blows to the head. It was hushed up, but played a role in discontinuing this useless and frankly dangerous procedure under the circumstances in europe.
FAs are not psychologists, pilots, police or anything else, they are just persons who, after a very rudimentary 4 weeks training course, are allowed to work on planes, safely on the other side of the flightdeck door. Nowadays in large percentages with an eastern european or middle east/islamic background.
FAs are not psychologists, pilots, police or anything else, they are just persons who, after a very rudimentary 4 weeks training course, are allowed to work on planes, safely on the other side of the flightdeck door. Nowadays in large percentages with an eastern european or middle east/islamic background.
06-14-2017, 07:49 AM
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: MD-80 CA, Retired
Posts: 106
Well, Denti, I never heard that one. Like you say it was covered up. The training of the F/A's for this duty should have simple, straight actions if he/she thinks the sole remaining pilot is doing something "strange". Opening the door to let in the other pilot is the answer, not hitting the guy! I'll bet the F/A in your scenario felt pretty stupid when the situation was explained to her.
By going back to the "one person in the cockpit is ok" thing, how does this address the suicidal pilot scenario? Is the attitude now, "This is such a rare thing, we are just going to assume it won't happen again?"
By going back to the "one person in the cockpit is ok" thing, how does this address the suicidal pilot scenario? Is the attitude now, "This is such a rare thing, we are just going to assume it won't happen again?"
06-15-2017, 02:39 AM
#50
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Position: A320 Left
Posts: 97
Originally Posted by glasspilot
Well, Denti, I never heard that one. Like you say it was covered up. The training of the F/A's for this duty should have simple, straight actions if he/she thinks the sole remaining pilot is doing something "strange". Opening the door to let in the other pilot is the answer, not hitting the guy! I'll bet the F/A in your scenario felt pretty stupid when the situation was explained to her.
By going back to the "one person in the cockpit is ok" thing, how does this address the suicidal pilot scenario? Is the attitude now, "This is such a rare thing, we are just going to assume it won't happen again?"
By going back to the "one person in the cockpit is ok" thing, how does this address the suicidal pilot scenario? Is the attitude now, "This is such a rare thing, we are just going to assume it won't happen again?"
The suicidal pilot thing cannot be adressed adequately, never will be. It happened before the reinforced door was invented, with a full flight deck, and it will happen again. However, weighing that risk against someone with hostile intent entering the flightdeck, the latter one won out. Not to mention, quite a few airlines in europe never introduced that two persons on the flightdeck thing in the first place.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
7thgear
Flight Schools and Training
26
04-12-2015 11:09 AM
