I just read through parts of the TA and I can't believe 500 or so Pinnacle pilots thought that piece of garbage was worth a yes vote.

The Probies at Comair walked off and though were "terminated" by the Company, part of the strike settlement was "re-hiring" of those probationary pilots.

"No pilot left behind" if you will. It wouldn't be good for future union support if probs. were cut loose and not included. Its become a standard part of a "return to work" agreement.

I wouldn't worry about it, the National SPC will help guide all of you through the steps if it comes down to self-help.

Alright, I am just flat out sick of quotes like this. Obviously, if you just read the TA, you don't work here. That means that you have no idea what it is like working here, nor do you have any idea what brought a person to a "yes" vote.

My personal situation allowed me to vote "no". I'm 27 with a savings from when I got paid well. I am single and live with my parents so my expenses are low. I had a lot of scholarship to college so again, my expenses are low. I got a choice when I voted and decided that the TA wasn't good enough to pass.

Some people here are not so fortunate. We have junior FO's who were furloughed from other carriers and came here for the quick upgrade. I am in that group, but where I differ, is that some of these guys/gals are married with kids and a mortgage. The finances were ok for a few months, or maybe a year, before Captain pay, not the year and half or two years it has now been. I know two FO's who are going through foreclosures right now. That $7,000 a year we would have gotten in year two pay plus the signing bonus would have allowed them to keep their house.

We also have a contingent of Captains in Memphis who will not see a better QOL no matter what contract we eventually sign. They already get 19-21 days off a month. This contract was going to give them around a $10/hr raise and a $30,000+ signing bonus. While I think it is a selfish reason to vote yes and sell out the bottom half of the list, how many of us could really give up what they were getting???

Also keep in mind that a lot of the people here have been fighting for four and half years. We are looking at another who know how long before we see another TA, and some people just couldn't justify the wait. If we knew we could get significantly better, many could have fought, but there is no guarantee what will come next, and many here are just tired and out of fight.

As I said, I voted "no" because I could, but I have never talked down to a person because they voted "yes". Nor will I ever, because I realize some people just didn't have a choice and who am I to tell them they did. If you personally have a problem with these things, good for you. But, it is pretty easy to be a critic while standing on the outside looking in at the situation over here.

Yamahas3, if you work here and have a dog in this fight, I apologize for using your quote as the one to start my rant. However, if you don't work here, butt the **** out of the business of 1200 pilots you don't know.

What we must remember is we controll what we work under to a large extent. How long it takes to get it is another story. For me, it is principle that I'm willing to give $$ for. Yes, we may never make up the diff. in having a contract now vs 6mo-1yr from now, but we will be treated fairly...this is what we controll. We've done the hard part, now we must be galvanized through the no vote and not waste it. Let's kill it and bring it home.

"Kill it and bring it home?"

What are you going to do? Change the RLA? Get another NMB that's even more "labor friendly" than the one we have under a Democratic Pres.?

I hate to be a Debbie Downer, but I see zero reason for the company to sign another agreement until the end of our ASA with Delta/NWA.

It's one thing to get the company to sign the p.o.s. we just had--it's a completely different thing to get something reasonably better.

"But what about all that UAL RFP?"--yeah...because 9E has the money to lend to United like Skywest/ASA we'll never see UAL flying because we can't afford to pay for it. Any cost savings UAL would've gotten with us relative to ASA was cancelled out by Skywest's war chest...and theirs is way bigger than ours.

"But Delta wants it done."--is that why they keep giving us more block hours in the months after we vote down the last TA? If they're worried about labor stability, it sure doesn't jive with what I'm seeing in the bid packs/projections...

Can anyone point to anything that would give the company any reason to sign? (Don't say "goodness of their hearts" unless you want a good laugh out of me)

Nick- honest question... With the reality as it is (Yes I voted "NO" if that disclaimer needs to be made) what do YOU suggest we strive for and do towards a new TA? I have my own views and opinions but you are vocal against everyone trying to secure a deal that treats and compensates us as professionals. The point that has already been made is 6-12 months of negotiating towards a better deal raises the bar for the industry- which many of us will be living under for decades to come. Sure, you may lose a couple thousand NOW- but 5-10-20 years from now you can be sitting on a better QOL (read a family and personal life), a realistic chance of being able to retire before 80, and a paycheck that is far better than the industry as a whole takes home now as a "professional".


I won't flame, just curious of your ideas and motive.

Just an update so everyone non pinnacle can see whats up - we have new negotiators and will start negotiating second week of november. Wish us luck.

Also, for pinnacle guys, do you think Delta will take any of our 200's in this latest announcement of parking 100 more 200's. I realize that we have an ASA and all but just curious to see what you all think

if they are taking 100's and 200's offline, they are going to be at Comair's or Mesaba's expense. They are wholly owned, we've got an ASA. I could be wrong, just my thoughts. 200's aren't really making much money and are on their way out, so at some point Pinnacle is going to be losing their 200's as well, when, only time will tell

How many 200s are there between Mesaba and Comair? We at Mesaba are doomed no matter what. We will probably be half of what we are now in a year and a half.

Seems a large portion of them could be 50 seaters at Chautauqua and Mesa should those contracts be canceled (and it seems as if they will be)