The 2% system wide reduction in credit back to 2012 levels?

WTF....I'm so confused...it appears I have to retract my----"I misunderstood"...it now appears that my initial reaction was correct.

Like I said...you never know about these web boards

And yes I know...I posted on my own post...GTFOI!!

While no one, including me, is claiming that the trips are equal to or greater than earlier years, your last sentence is questionable to put it mildly. Let me ask you, have you never swapped, WS, swapped or picked up on the swapboard? There's plenty of chances to improve your line at least a little bit.

Further, I don't consider a trip that blocks in at 2345 (thus releases at 0015) a "true" 4-day trip while one that blocks in 20 minutes earlier truly IS a 3-day. There's a reason for the 0200 carveout. Critically, neither of those trips is commutable, if that's your priority, so is there really a difference? I don't see a huge difference in the trip value after all said and done--certainly not several DAYS difference in how much time you need to be on the job.

A trip blocking in at 2345 (releasing at 0015) prohibits our military members from performing any military duty the following day, while one blocking in 20 minutes earlier does not. A subtle but not inconsequential difference.

Good point....and a ridiculous corporate policy. Makes me a whole lot less willing to listen on other issues.

I have not been keeping up with the USERRA lawsuits but it’s beyond ridiculous that Delta says we can’t do military duty that same day if the trip blocks in after midnight. Now if they were paying me for the same day sure but the 0200 carve out gets them out of that. It’s also stupid on Deltas part because we have too burn the drills sometime and it would be better off if I burned them the same day assuming I had proper rest. Shenanigans I say.

Sounds like we need to get rid of the 2 hr carve out. Sounds like a previous give to the company that is time to take back.

yes I have WS'd, in fact I had to WS to get to the 72hrs I'm getting this month and WS to get more trips is exactly the opposite of what I'm trying to do, and one of the trips blocks in after midnight, not before midnight, but during the 2 hour carve out, which in essence takes a day, or at least a portion of my day away from my family on an otherwise day off. Swapping a trip with no credit, for another trip with no credit doesnt solve the problem. The optimization that is taking place is significantly impacting quality of life for many, not just me. I spent the last 10 months on reserve, and not one single month, other than vacation month did I fly less than 84 hrs of HARD time. I surpassed the ALV as a reserve guy every month, and not because I green slipped or asked to fly. Scheduling has gotten great at assigning 15hr trips when you are within a few minutes of being full. I'm simply making the observation that 2 years ago, I could fly 11 to 12 days and make what now takes 14 to 16 days and while on reserve I fly EVERY single day of availability except when I time out due to 30/168 rules or approach the ALV +15. The optimizer is significantly impacting our quality of life, at least in NYC. The commutability is virtually non existent, and your right that simply moving to NYC, although getting hammered with $26k in additional taxes would solve the commute problem, it wouldnt solve work days required to make equivalent money.

Just curious, when you have a trip that signs in after say 5 pm do you count that as a day of work or day with the family?

Nope. The post I replied to is lamenting less credit time but I assume that the poster hasn't been here long. Prior to the ADG, which came with the FAR 117 agreement, all these trips he is lamenting paid far LESS than what they do now! I keep stating this over and over, but guys don't want facts to get in the way of a good rant.

Prior to the ADG, we had a 5.15 Duty Period Average. It did NOT apply to

...reserves (!)
... DH only duty periods
... 30 hour layovers in the middle of a trip
... last leg red-eyes that ended a trip


The 0200 carve out exists because the company agreed to add the 5.15 ADG to the last leg redeye of trips.... something they had never paid before. Their point was that they wanted a little relief from the ADG if a trip was just one of the last that arrived late at night, versus one truly arriving the next morning.

Hey I understand that the trips suck these days, and NYC is stupidly non commutable. The true efforts need to be giving the RCC some teeth, or pursuing some contractual language that might help. Lowering the TLV to a lower range (it used to be 72-77, now it is 75-80... now that WAS a permanent give to the company) would help but you know the company will fight that one.