I was told it was about the "airline within airline" ...

The company has also retained counsel to oppose the integration of managers into the IPA. The company could fight this and cost the IPA a lot of money. It depends on how much the IPA wants to risk.

How many management pilots are there at UPS? What are their duties...asst chief/chief pilots; check airman; instructors? I assume they're also used for the surge ops at Xmas? Anything else?

There are about 160 flight qualified supervisors and about 20-30 flight qualified managers. The flight qualified supervisors are either check airman, ACP's (flight qualified but not checking status) and some system operations people who are flight qualified. The managers are flight qualified but usually not check airman.

Too many!!!

They could, but there is already past precedence and case law against them.
Then again a company that just made 1.1 Biiiiiiiiiiilion dollars (In Dr. Evils voice) who knows, but it is something that needs to be done.

The real issue is the new hire manager (Captain) who tries to come down on you and they probably haven't even consolidated yet. What do they know about our operations.

we're tired of being checked by guys that a) can't pass checks themselves and b) have little to no exerience. Also, we can't afford to have almost ten percent of our pilot force runing around outside of the contract as super reserves with no workrules. Not so nice to fly with a guy that just worked an 8 hour desk shift and now must fly 12 or more hours.

"The real issue is the new hire manager (Captain) who tries to come down on you and they probably haven't even consolidated yet. What do they know about our operations."

I respect that that's your top issue, but my top issue is different.

My issue is simply one of dollars in my pocket. All Brown flying, scheduled or otherwise, should be performed by the class and craft represented by the IPA. No seniority number, no fly. UPS is (now) free to outsource our jobs, and enjoys the economic benefits of doing so, at our expense.

The company is certainly free to hire any bozo they desire to attempt to adequately supervise me, I really don't care. Their flight-rated supervisor may have 230 total hours, all piston, and it still doesn't change the reality of my job. Sure, I may not like that the manager has no idea what he's talking about, but that doesn't affect my career value, which personally I define as my ratio of dollars earned to time away. What does alter the reality of my job is slower career advancement due to UPS having unfettered access to 160+ managers, when the alternative would certainly be adequate staffing.

TrahHauler1 characterized the majority of mangers as untrustworthy scabs. Well, OK, let's pretend they are. Our choice is to have untrustworthy scabs on our seniority list, or untrustworthy scabs off our seniority list. We aren't gaining anything by having them off. In fact, we are worse off, as far as career earnings and quality of life (all seniority-related) with the nearly unlimited productivity of their indentured managers.

Are they untrustworthy scabs? Maybe so, maybe no. Wouldn't you want them to at least have the option of honoring a picket line? Who knows, maybe 2 or 22 or 122 of them would choose to honor one? If it's just one, I'm better off with them on our list.

Does anybody think manager on our seniority be more likely than the average IPA bear to vote in any POS future TA? Not if their take home spelled out in the TA they're voting on.

Man! You couldn't pay me enough to be in management here. These guys are craaaaazy! No amount of money is worth being the company biatch!