these aren't pilots that are coming out of flight schools that don't know anything about unions and the industry. these are pilots who have been in the industry.

if they are military and new then I bet they would do their homework real quickly if they found out they couldn't jumpseat like others and forced to live in base. I think most realise how expensive SF is.

Eric....

As a CAL pilot, I said clearly that I disagree.

Do me a favor and revisit CALPilotToo's post:
"Pilots like this are destroying the industry. I'm getting to the point that if you are not a union pilot in the large regional or major categories you will not get on my jumpseat."

Pretty clear if your nonunion, your not going to ride....true?

So are you going to ban nonunion VA from the Jumpseat and let nonunion JB sit?? Sounds a bit hypocritical to me. Nonunion is nonunion. In letting one sit and banning the other is going to leave the nonunion guys as a whole really wanting to jump right in and join an ALPA, or some other independent and form up a union....JBPA....VAPA....whatever.

If ALPA, along with President John Prater, and MEC's at UAL, DAL, CAL, ALA, FEDEX, COEX, AMR EGL, Comair, ASA, Mesaba (XJ), Transtates (and the rest I am forgetting, sorry), want to say nonunion does not ride....then there you have it, that is a group movement. When you have some "radomes" playing games with "JS Bingo," that's extremely nonproductive, and destructive all the way around.

My view from the original post still has not changed.

I ask you the same question that I posed earlier.....do you commute??.......specifically JS to work??

Regardless of your take.....Animal House still rocks.

Just remember, when you make the call to bump someone, it can have big repercussions downstream. You say "All unions should band together to do it". Ain't gonna happen cause the group, as a whole, see's that it isn't worth it the price.

Again. You gonna tell the CAL guys that ride on Jetblue to forget it for the sake of the profession?

Good luck with that.

I honestly don't care if they are union or non union it's about undercutting this industry to get ahead. (think gojets) I will add that most non union carriers seem to do less for raising the bar then do union carriers.

I agree with your JS bingo analogy. that is why I said their should be more, as in all of ALPA and everyone else who wants to protect this industry. when go jets started my airline came out and said don't let gojets ride because what they were doing. alpa carrier. unfortunately that didn't last and others didn't go along.

I just feel pilots need to take responsibility for their own actions/inactions for what happens in this industry and stop blaming management and deregulation. management has been doing this since the beginning and deregulation happened 30 years ago. there is an old saying of "doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results" I think that was the definition of insanity.

as for commuting, I recently stopped after quit awhile of doing it. my beliefs were the same then as it is now. I've never felt that an easier commute is worth the possible effects of being undercut.

I feel jetblue should have never been offered a ride when they started. I had a jetblue guy on my jumpseat in the begining who said he didn't care about the rates because he upgraded in less than a year and lived in grand rapids where the cost of living was less than most places. he said FO rates didn't matter because he wouldn't be one for long. that is the same thing I hear about guys looking at VA. what's the upgrade at jetblue now and what will it be at VA in the future?

if you are going to undercut airlines you shouldn't get the same benefits as the others who are trying to bring it up.

have people been able to commute before VA started. what happens if alaska tell's it's pilots they need to take a paycut to compete against VA.

I do agree with you that as a group unions don't want to do this. that would mean we may have to take some responsibility for our own actions in lowering the industry. that means we couldn't just blame management any more.

Eric....

You EWR based?? If so, I commute and sit prior to "pond" push.....let's do lunch, I want to hear more of your views live and in person.

SC

In my opinion the damage they are doing to us all is more important than whether someone will be able to get on thier jumpseat.

In many cases these guys are the reason airlines hire less or eventually furlough because they are breaking the backs of this career. I'll forgo a jumpseat option to maybe save a career option.

You all complain about CAL scabs and this is why they survive this industry because no one punishes them. Same with the VA type scumbags.

I've commuted my entire career. And I've never ridden on JetBlue, VA, GO, or Mesa, and never will.

Many CAL pilots have done their very best to destroy this profession and it is guys like me that remind them everyday. So don't tell me I live in a glass house. And yes, I talk out loud in the crew room as much as I do on the internet. It is why I bid Captain so I could call a Scab a Scab without it making for a long trip. Guys like you want to forgive and forget apparently. Not me. Once a scab, always a scab. And finally, because ALPA was so stupid to give them amnesty which I was against, I have to recgnize them as union members now. But to answer your question I have denied two CAL pilots the jumpseat int he last 3 years because they were MIBS. But if they are MIGS I let them ride.

Any more questions?

Don't apologize for me. I have never denied a JetBlue pilot.