There are pros and cons for both sides that have been argued to the hilt. For the company if offers some flexibility in how and when they have the AE's and how they convert pilots. For the pilots it offers some insulation against immediate seasonal pulldowns in staffing at given bases and fleet.

See they could shift the 744 from DTW to NYC and ATL for summer and then back to DTW for the winter, literally opening and closing bases for a given season. It would save in the DH. Do not want to bet that it would be tried? Look at the cost savings for the DH legs on any give fleet of WB jets. It would make seasonal commuters. Look how the different jets in our fleet perform a city pair with a given season. That my friends is one of the biggest benefits on this system.

Of course there are negatives, but for many the tradeoffs are worth it. I say look at the whole picture and worst case scenario with each option before you judge why those with a better sight picture are so resistant to get rid of it.

You know that is just a watergun, ts. All the other ones have been prohibited!

Ok. That's goes along with what I learned initially But, since fNWA 757's did Europe and Asia flying, wouldn't you say that they were doing ER flying before the merger? Or, is there something else I'm missing? I'm just trying to get the whole argument that DTW and MSP 757 category's should have been put up for a complete rebid like SLC and CVG 767 category's.....

You may be right, but I would argue that those who have actually lived under both systems have the better perspective.

The scenario you described with the seasonal commuters would not likely happen. Under the APA system, if they closed the category, everyone could displace into anything else they liked. This constant waterfall training effect would far outweigh any potential savings on DH.

Ultimately it doesn't matter, but you will be hard pressed to convince any FNWA that the AE is better for pilots. As was previously described Delta can time their AE's to just before a wave of freezes expires (with only a few bids a year, they know when a large bulk of freezes are about to expire.) With monthly bids, your two year seatlock is only two years. Here it is potentially 2 years, plus however long it takes them to run another AE, and THEN you have potentially a year while you wait for them to convert you. If you're stuck in an undesirable situation it could be for a much longer time under the AE system.

I'm on board with our new favorite way of doing things. Just trying to shed some light on why you guys are seeing so much desire to return to the old favorite way.

Who do we have to replace him?

IMHO I'm sure he'll do great at ALPA national. Probably just needs to walk through the door and he'd already do more than Prater, but frankly, all I care about is DALPA.

To me national is kind of like having your local specialized whatever union representing both the unionized members and the non-unionized members and the illegals hired to do the same job. Until it has a sole purpose of safety of all airlines and the other interests of the mainline and regional pilots is split then I don't think either is getting what they deserve.

I nominate, Carl and Slow for DALPA.

Well, if the ALPA President can't simultaneously by ALPA President and MEC Chairman of DALPA, and he's successful, then I'd say it means an orderly continuation of the MEC's strategy at Delta, with a different Chairman. It would tell me that the DALPA MEC is not to top-down body that some fear, and that the MEC is the driving force behind Moak's actions, not the other way around. It would mean that this "Constructive Engagement" is not centered around a person, but around a group of people on this MEC, and like-minded MEC's. It would tell me that we can deal with our own Section 6 without the distraction of people fear or imagined side deals, and conversations about birthday parties and the like.

If the MEC Chariman could hold both a DALPA and National position, I would be more leery of distractions, and potential conflicts, but I'm not 100% certain it couldn't work.

Personally, I think Moak is a good, effective union leader, maybe the best I've seen. But none of this is about Moak. This is all about my kids' welfare, and my kids' welfare is tied to my wallet and my presence at home (where more is better). It's about having an effective MEC obtaining gains, and acquitting itself of the business of the Delta pilots. Because I think they're most capable of representing my interests, and crafting an implementing effective strategies, I support this MEC. I would like their actions to continue, and to be adapted as the environment changes. That means our Section 6 will be a lot less friendly (ironically) than our BK discussions.

I like the idea of having a core of people that are effective and intelligent carry this startegy forward, but I don't want the process hijacked by individuals that park themselves in positions of power, and won't ever leave. I think there is a limit to Constructive Engagement, and that even if the idea has a lot of staying power, it can be corrupted after people spend so much time with Managament, that they think they are mangement. So I think an orderly exit by Moak now would be extremely good news. It's what I've been advocating to my rep.

Tsquare, I'm a Gator and I totally agree with your suggestion. Shocking!

NewK
Actually you're missing A LOT! The 767 is a much different airplane, for one thing I can't find where I'm really supposed to store my bag. The instructors said the front closet but the first time I did that, the MSP Purser kicked me in the nuts. However, the first southie girls I flew with (SLC) only asked that I put mine in first so she could have access to hers. Then, of course, are the GE engines........oh wait, those are easier to start, never mind.

90% plus is a 757. It flys just like a -300, has that same "heavy feel" except it doesn't float on landing. IE, you have to keep the power on just like you do on a 9-50 vs a -30.

As I've said before, NUMEROUS TIMES, I'm glad the company cared enough to give us bounces, a sim in ATL and TOE to make sure we had the different crossing procedures down (which were 6 of one, half dozen of the other type changes).

I guess I'll agree with T, as you can't change his mind on anything anyway and just say FINE we should have rebid MSP and DTW. But I don't think much would have changed because everyone knows those places $uck. One of the funniest guys in NRT now is an exATL guy who commutes out of DFW. He was real tired of beating his head against the DFW>ATL wall and just came up to MSP because, "I wanted to go where I figured NO one else was going".

Can we put this to rest, what a dumb discussion........see T, I agree with you again.

Ferd

Anyone doing the ATL-MEM commute? How are the loads generally? Is FedEx a good backup, or more of a hassle than it's worth? Are jumpseats usually available?

How is the crashpad situation in MEM? Do you need a car? Are there cheap commuter hotels?

I'm coming from DTW so I'm not willing to go over $37/night for a commuter hotel

Thanks!

Now that I know what I was missing, I'm glad I missed it.

Good luck to everyone in staying where you want to stay and going to where you want to go.