Something tells me you are simply trying to get under the skin of many of us if you really can't differentiate between taking a Seminole out for a day with a couple of buddies or your girlfriend and paying a company to be an employee. Can you give me an expample in any other industry where this is acceptable?

As far as training contracts and type ratings are concerned, the fact is that as soon as you sit down in the pilots seat (including IOE) YOU are earning the money, not the company you are flying for. And yes I can hear you making the argument that training contracts are the same as paying for training, but everyone who enters into a training contract knows prior to beginning training the conditions of the obligations to that contract. It still doesn't change, promisary note or not, you will still receive a paycheck for the duties you are performing.

Plantaition, I'm not making any judgements about your abitities necessarily but does it concern you that a company is willing to put any warm body with a fist full of cash into a postion that expects at least a minor responsibility to their operation? I know its hard to hear everyone tell you you are making the wrong descision but just think ahead when you are actually getting compensated to do a job (most likely poorly). How might you feel when you see someone willing to do your job for less than free? And as you are trying to impove the conditions and wage of your profession, how might you perceive those that are willing to do your job out of pocket and how do you think that could affect your efforts?

Student teachers.

It's not a hypothetical. We do hire an pay an FO to sit in that seat and the boss-man is considering selling it instead.

Care to answer or are you still interested in tap dancing around the question? I just want to see where the line is drawn.

"The passengers don't like seeing an empty seat."
- Bossman

I don't buy it. Most of the time I get "oh there's two pilots today?", but it isn't my call, plus my FO is a good guy so I don't mind having the extra set of hands and eyes.

We're insured and "dispatched" single pilot, the SIC is listed as a passenger...so, no it doesn't affect insurance.

Yes.

Yes.

-mini

Sorry Sky but like you I moved on past instructing years ago but if I had to I would go back.. I've been flying 135 for quite some time and known guys who used to fly for key lime and they wouldn't let their worst enemy fly for this outfit!

There are plenty of jobs out there right now it may not seem like it but the availability of jobs keeps increasing in aviation by the week. The main thing is persistence and who you know, its easy to get in a slump. Like you I was out of work for a few months however I networked and made my face known at every outlet available. When I did get called and hired at my current employer it was because of my persistence in following up with emails to the D.O. I wasn't bugging him but an email so often letting the employer know that you want a chance to become part of their company helps. I wish you the best of luck at key lime just keep the dirty side down!

This.

-mini

My bad, you're right, I misunderstood you. Are we still talking about Key Lime? Or someone else?

My company does both pax and cargo, but you'd never see a paying FO on the pax planes.

What can I say? I guess you have to ask "if no one payed, would the boss still hire someone?" That's where I'd have to draw a firm line. Sounds to me like you can fly just fine without them FWIW. But an outright replacement of a hired FO with a paying one, no I don't agree with it.

To tell you the truth, I haven't had an FO at my base for several months, but no one has seemed to notice. It reconfirms my belief that it's not something the company is dependent upon to turn a profit.

Nav,

I agree with you on that point. Wouldn't more cmpanies be doing it if it were a major source of income and something they had to rely on? From what I've seen, Key Lime is one of only a handful that has a program like this.

I would imagine most other companies have a vested interest in maintaining their reputations. As you've seen here the majority of professional pilots hold Key Lime in general and these types of programs in particular in pretty low regard. It simply isn't worth it to them to compromise an image that takes years upon years to build.

Only the true "Bottom Feeders"