Key Lime Air's SIC to PIC program
11-28-2009 | 04:04 PM
#31
Self Employed.
Joined: May 2005
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From: Corporate Pilot
Hey 50K
After $150,000 in college and flight training what is another $50,000?
If SWA was selling First Officer Jobs for 50K and all one needed besides the money was a commercial MEL would you do it?
When Valuejet started out I was told that they sold their pilot jobs for 50K.
Skyhigh
If SWA was selling First Officer Jobs for 50K and all one needed besides the money was a commercial MEL would you do it?
When Valuejet started out I was told that they sold their pilot jobs for 50K.
Skyhigh
11-28-2009 | 06:00 PM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2008
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From: Thrill Seat
After $150,000 in college and flight training what is another $50,000?
If SWA was selling First Officer Jobs for 50K and all one needed besides the money was a commercial MEL would you do it?
When Valuejet started out I was told that they sold their pilot jobs for 50K.
Skyhigh
If SWA was selling First Officer Jobs for 50K and all one needed besides the money was a commercial MEL would you do it?
When Valuejet started out I was told that they sold their pilot jobs for 50K.
Skyhigh
Lastly you HEARD that when Valuejet started out... did you get hired there, did you interview... I heard from a friend's mom's aunt's dad's uncle's third cousin that I was going to win the lottery last week... But that's what I HEARD
11-28-2009 | 09:38 PM
#33
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From: Corporate Pilot
Dream
another 50K is money that you could put towards starting your life like buying a house or a more reliable car! Buying a type to qualify because everyone else that your competing against has the type and time is a lot different than paying for time in a single pilot aircraft.
Lastly you HEARD that when Valuejet started out... did you get hired there, did you interview... I heard from a friend's mom's aunt's dad's uncle's third cousin that I was going to win the lottery last week... But that's what I HEARD
Lastly you HEARD that when Valuejet started out... did you get hired there, did you interview... I heard from a friend's mom's aunt's dad's uncle's third cousin that I was going to win the lottery last week... But that's what I HEARD
Skyhigh
11-28-2009 | 09:46 PM
#34
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Joined: Jun 2007
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From: Whale FO
Wow, just like the previous posters. Paying for a type for swa is totally different than paying to build time to attempt to get a job. The type rating isn't going to do you any good unless you already have pic 121 time or pic turbine/jet time for swa. Paying for 'just' 500 hrs of turbine 'sic' in a singe pilot certified a/c cost $35k or for some piston 'sic' time it's $26k for 500 hrs. You know damn right well that sic time is worthless. You get to watch someone do their job, they don't need you there. Why not just pencil whip the time in there and save yourself all the money?!
11-29-2009 | 07:02 AM
#35
Self Employed.
Joined: May 2005
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From: Corporate Pilot
Total Time
Wow, just like the previous posters. Paying for a type for swa is totally different than paying to build time to attempt to get a job. The type rating isn't going to do you any good unless you already have pic 121 time or pic turbine/jet time for swa. Paying for 'just' 500 hrs of turbine 'sic' in a singe pilot certified a/c cost $35k or for some piston 'sic' time it's $26k for 500 hrs. You know damn right well that sic time is worthless. You get to watch someone do their job, they don't need you there. Why not just pencil whip the time in there and save yourself all the money?!
It is common for working flight instructors buy milti engine time. What is the difference between that and buying time as a crew member? Pay to play keeps the dream alive if nothing else. In the end we all have to pay.
Skyhigh
11-29-2009 | 07:28 AM
#36
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Since I'm stuck on the road today and have nothing better to do I'll bite.
Key Lime Air - Colorado's #1 Air Charter Service
First I don't have the direct experience that you asked for, but you now have two threads going on the topic so you must be serious about doing the SIC program.
About 12 to 15 years ago pay for training was more common, but movement was happening and I can see the argument for it.....maybe.
Today and for the next 5+ years I do not see much happening.
How old are you, how much time do you have? Are you a CFI/CFII/MEI, if not why not?
My opinion only, save your money, get ratings the legitimate way, pay your dues and if you want in this industry bad enough you'll make it in time.
Good luck and Happy T-day
Key Lime Air - Colorado's #1 Air Charter Service
First I don't have the direct experience that you asked for, but you now have two threads going on the topic so you must be serious about doing the SIC program.
About 12 to 15 years ago pay for training was more common, but movement was happening and I can see the argument for it.....maybe.
Today and for the next 5+ years I do not see much happening.
How old are you, how much time do you have? Are you a CFI/CFII/MEI, if not why not?
My opinion only, save your money, get ratings the legitimate way, pay your dues and if you want in this industry bad enough you'll make it in time.
Good luck and Happy T-day
Many thanks for the advice. I'm thirty and do have my CFI but have met with dead ends on the search for a job instructing. Seems all flight schools now are looking for II and MEI aswell. The money I would spend on obtaining these, while not quite as much, would not secure an interview. I know most think its some sort of aviation faux pas but, having submitted over three hundred resumes, I have to get something going, and this will, at least, accomplish that. Hope you had a good thanksgiving as well.
Cheers
11-29-2009 | 07:49 AM
#37
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Plantation,
Before this thread drifts any further, let me sum up the Key Lime experience for you. Key Lime is your typical scumbag 135 operator. It's a dead end business model that makes no money and incurs debt(due to the ever-aging aircraft fleet). The company as a whole is cash poor. They take advantage of people like you because all they see are $'s. Your checks will stave off vendors for another 90 days. In the meantime, you get to serve as a useless crewmember in a single pilot airplane which, by the way, all the Capts. were trained to fly that way. Not to worry though, you'll do your share of humping freight in and out of UPS trucks, in the dark and freezing cold. Fun stuff!
You mentioned a warm reception and friendly voices on the phone. It's all an act, buddy. The Pres. is worthless and has absolutely no business sense. In fact he's a terrible pilot with very dangerous attitudes in regards to getting the freight places on time. Oh, and enough DUI's that he should be in prison. Sweet. The VP is a decent guy but because the Pres. washes his hands of any real responsibility around the place, he holds it all together. His primary job is diciplinarian. Hopefully you don't ever end up in his office. The D.O. is a pompus ass with an ego problem who likes to bully pilots and throw his weight around, literally(he's a big boy). I don't know what poor sucker is the Chief these days. Just remember that safety isn't always their primary concern, pleasing UPS is.
The airplanes are for the most part in decent shape, at least they used to be. Maintenance is also pretty good, when it's convienent to them. A broken airplane is no excuse for late freight.
When I was there the pilot group was pretty awesome. We all knew the job and how to do it safely. I built some quality hours in the Metro that have served my career well and shaped my style of flying. I miss that airplane. Just remember who you're dealing with and always C.Y.A.!!! Safety should always be your #1 priority.
With the state of the industry I won't judge your decision to go there, but keep these things in mind. Any job you land after this one will seem so easy and more enjoyable. But while you're there, have fun with it. Feel free to pm me with any questions.
Before this thread drifts any further, let me sum up the Key Lime experience for you. Key Lime is your typical scumbag 135 operator. It's a dead end business model that makes no money and incurs debt(due to the ever-aging aircraft fleet). The company as a whole is cash poor. They take advantage of people like you because all they see are $'s. Your checks will stave off vendors for another 90 days. In the meantime, you get to serve as a useless crewmember in a single pilot airplane which, by the way, all the Capts. were trained to fly that way. Not to worry though, you'll do your share of humping freight in and out of UPS trucks, in the dark and freezing cold. Fun stuff!
You mentioned a warm reception and friendly voices on the phone. It's all an act, buddy. The Pres. is worthless and has absolutely no business sense. In fact he's a terrible pilot with very dangerous attitudes in regards to getting the freight places on time. Oh, and enough DUI's that he should be in prison. Sweet. The VP is a decent guy but because the Pres. washes his hands of any real responsibility around the place, he holds it all together. His primary job is diciplinarian. Hopefully you don't ever end up in his office. The D.O. is a pompus ass with an ego problem who likes to bully pilots and throw his weight around, literally(he's a big boy). I don't know what poor sucker is the Chief these days. Just remember that safety isn't always their primary concern, pleasing UPS is.
The airplanes are for the most part in decent shape, at least they used to be. Maintenance is also pretty good, when it's convienent to them. A broken airplane is no excuse for late freight.
When I was there the pilot group was pretty awesome. We all knew the job and how to do it safely. I built some quality hours in the Metro that have served my career well and shaped my style of flying. I miss that airplane. Just remember who you're dealing with and always C.Y.A.!!! Safety should always be your #1 priority.
With the state of the industry I won't judge your decision to go there, but keep these things in mind. Any job you land after this one will seem so easy and more enjoyable. But while you're there, have fun with it. Feel free to pm me with any questions.
A sincere thanks for a very honest and informative response. I don't know if I can PM yet. If not would you shoot me an e-mail? Thanks again!
[email protected]
11-29-2009 | 10:45 AM
#38
New Hire
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 7
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Hollings,
A sincere thanks for a very honest and informative response. I don't know if I can PM yet. If not would you shoot me an e-mail? Thanks again!
[email protected]
A sincere thanks for a very honest and informative response. I don't know if I can PM yet. If not would you shoot me an e-mail? Thanks again!
[email protected]
Hope I can help.
11-29-2009 | 11:53 AM
#39
Self Employed.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,120
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From: Corporate Pilot
Casino Express
Jet operators also have sold jobs.
In the 1990's there was an airline called Casino Express that use to sell FO jobs in the 737. After a period of time you were given a salary. Also Valuejet sold pilot jobs in the MD-80 for 50K.
I was recently told about a company in Florida that sells FO jobs in a 727. Imagine if every airline sold their jobs? It could happen. Training contracts are not far off from selling jobs.
Skyhigh
In the 1990's there was an airline called Casino Express that use to sell FO jobs in the 737. After a period of time you were given a salary. Also Valuejet sold pilot jobs in the MD-80 for 50K.
I was recently told about a company in Florida that sells FO jobs in a 727. Imagine if every airline sold their jobs? It could happen. Training contracts are not far off from selling jobs.
Skyhigh
11-29-2009 | 12:26 PM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 467
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From: Thrill Seat
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