Not a problem as long as its Delta pilots at the controls. They can fly whatever they want as long as its guys on the list//discussion

I agree that mindset of scope 2 decades ago forever changed the industry. Unfortunately that was before my time. I also agree that a 'handful' of large biz jets may not be an immediate threat, but if we don't put a stop to it now it could become a bigger problem. Are you suggesting that we willingly allow management to violate our contract? How will this look to an arbitrator in future grievances? We must defend everything, no matter how small. If Delta management wants these large biz jets that's fine, but they'll be flown by pilots on the Delta seniority list.

So...was there an actual grievance filed on behalf of DAPA with regards to Delta Private Jets?

If so, was it really "won" as was mentioned upthread?

I'll submit that the bizjet segment is the gravest threat to airline careers, ever.

Because that $6000 an hour pax is not going on the WB in 1st class, bringing down the yields on the whole trip, which puts pressure on wages, which makes guys make bad decisions like opening the door on scope 'just a little bit', and in the meantime the TSA comes up with another ineffective, intrusive, absurd screening protocol, which further drives away traffic, but if Mr $6000 an hour pax had to put up with that nonsense, he'd call his golf buddy Congressman whats-his-name and say, get rid of this #$%^&, not just for me but for everybody.

But if an airline is going to fly bizjets, then by all means pilots on that airline's seniority list better be on the flight deck.

Yup, airlines will slash capacity resulting in parked fleets and thousands of pilots (along with tens of thousands of support employees) will lose their jobs due to a rise in the numbers of business aircraft that cost more to operate for one hour than it costs a family of four to fly a round-trip transcon.

Do you know why so many high-yield business travelers have shunned airline travel for much more costly business aircraft?

Airline travel is not convenient.
Airline travel is a hassle.
Airline travel is not reliable.
Airline travel is a waste of their time.
Airline travel is not convenient.

When you or your company can afford transportation solutions that are convenient, not a hassle, reliable, and don't waste time, you use them.

Of course that's not to say airlines don't provide a valuable service to an exceptionally large portion of the population...but saying bizav is "the gravest threat to airline careers" is just as laughable as saying Trader Joes is the gravest threat to Safeway.

The great thing is that the taxpayer subsidizes the business travel of these high value customers through business deductions.

While left-wing talking points are cute, calling asset depreciation a "taxpayer subsidy" is blatant ignorance at its very worst.

You do realize that Delta gets to depreciate their aircraft for tax purposes much like a corporation gets to depreciate its aircraft...right? The difference is airlines have a 7 year depreciation schedule and business aircraft are on a 5 year depreciation schedule.

Or that just a couple months before his "taxpayer subsidizes for private jets" speech Obama himself signed an economic stimulus bill into law that provides 100% "bonus" depreciation in tax year 2010 for, among other things, aircraft purchased and put into service this year...because bonus depreciation has historically proven to generate capital spending by businesses which helps the economy. Meaning Obama was for "taxpayer subsidizes for private jets" before he was against them.

Facts sure are stubborn things...

Talking about the airfare, the bill the HVC get to deduct for business...100% If the use is for something other than business (vacation) than no. I get the depreciation.

An actual grievance was filed, & our union informed us that the pilot group won the grievance.

Was it "won" at System Board or via Arbitration? If arbitration, was there a docket number or particular arbitrator that heard the case?

I ask not to be argumentative, but because I truly am curious...I can't imagine Delta Air Lines management and BoD would allow ALPA to dictate business in a completely separate segment of industry without a stout fight.