At 6ft tall, the 737 cockpit was the worst torture chamber I ever flew. I think I would shoot myself if I had to spend 25 to 35 years in it! (Assuming you have a choice.) YMMV.

Try a Learjet for a few thousand hours. After that you could have a Bar Mitzvah in a 737 cockpit.

My definition of QOL has a lot to do with what the guy from SWA said earlier, about living in domicile. If you just happen to live in or near Oakland, sure go to southwest, and your 15 years as an FO will be a blast because youll be sleeping in your bed a lot. Commuting to OAK will otherwise be something you resent if youre not on the west coast. Otherwise, AA QOL will be better faster: multiple bases will have vacancies, tons of new aircraft deliveries.

I think if people are worried about the "unknown" factor of AA's future, I do think that is a valid concern. But you have to take a look at what makes money: international routes. AA owns South America for now, and they stand to do great with USAir's Europe market, and further expansion into Asia and Africa. Disclaimer: Its been a while since I got my MBA. But I will say AA is positioned well for the future, and the merger isn't just a shell or something to get the investors a quick buck.

Lastly I will say, JoeyMeatballs is correct. 5 years ago the decision was clearly different. Now, the majors have now teamed up as powerhouses, and their future looks pretty good, barring the usual economic catastrophes. The other players, SWA, JB, Spirit, Alaska, etc... well theyre doing well now because everyone is. But whos likely to be affected the worst in the next downturn? The guys who don't realize the full potential of the intl market. With that being said, I would probably pick a company like Spirit over SWA.

Remember when Pan Am and TWA were the two big 747 driving, International Airlines everyone wanted to fly for? What happened to both of them when international traffic dried up due to the economy and terrorism in the early 90's?

What drove all the Majors into bankruptcy after 9-11? Lack of international traffic, due to fears of terrorism.

When you put all your eggs into the International basket, you'll die when the next terrorist threat shows itself. Ask anyone at UAL, DAL, NWA and AA what caused their bankruptcy. Now, how did SWA do during that same time frame?

Never lost a dime.

40% of the World's air travel traffic is inside the USA, that's why all the Foreign Carriers want to get more access to our markets. Right now, SWA owns domestic USA flying. But, if/when the idiots in DC allow Cabotage and then allow Emirates and the rest of the foreign carriers to fly inside the USA, that will change too. Be careful who you vote for. When United filed for bankruptcy, someone asked Senator John McCain what would happen if United went away. He said, "Well, if US Carriers can't do it and make money, we'll just have to let Foreign Carriers in to fly those routes."

Idiots. I say we hire kids from India and China to be our 535 Elected Representatives. I'm POSITIVE we could find Better, Smarter, more Trust Worthy kids in India and China, than the Wh0res we have representing us today in DC.

After 12 years sitting in the right seat, the only upgrade in sight is commuting to reserve to a far away base. After 12 years I still can't hold a decent line. I can't get a trip trade. I'll be working yet another Thanksgiving and Christmas. Forget about a summer vacation.

That being said, I second what has been said, it's all about the QoL. For me, that means live in base and pick the carrier that is going to give you the better QoL more quickly. As far as pay, what you make is not the hourly wage but what's shown on your W-2 at the end of the year. So, rigs and work rules are huge. That's what I lack now. I'd kill for the trips touching that Southwest still enjoys. AM PM lines? I'd prefer it. Higher credit for training and vacation would be nice too. While you're at it, the more sick days earned per month, the better. All of the above mean more days at home for the same money.

Choice is important. The more choices the better. Also, the more often you get to choose is huge. So, the more often the bids the better. AA gives you that choice to lateral over to larger equipment at a higher wage, which represents another choice. If I were at United now, I'd be in HOU on the 777 or on the 787 earning an override. At SWA, I'd be in the left seat already.

I second the non-rev privileges being an issue, especially with a family. I've had to pay for many an ID-90 for the wife and kids to go on vacation without me because my carrier doesn't go beyond Canada or Mexico. The without me is because I can't hold summer vacation, not only because of seniority, but, because my carrier eliminated most of our summer vacations as a staffing decision.


As far as international vs domestic, they're all just days away from home, just another day in someplace that isn't home. So, wherever I can get more days home sooner, that's my first choice. Again, work rules and rigs dictate how many days I have to work to make enough money. I wish that I had better.

R U going to do any military reserve If yes, hopefully you won't be commuting to a reserve job. If you can live and drill in base, that's obviously a plus. You can parley that mil leave into more money and time at home.

I spent 7 of the last 12 years on reserve, four of them commuting to reserve after being displaced off of my jet and out of base. Commuting to reserve for 4 years almost killed my marriage.

You mention little kids. It's a cliché; but, if mama's not happy, no one's happy. Ask your wife. She's the one that's going to be the single parent.

Timbo - "Right now, SWA owns domestic USA flying."


Total Passengers on U.S Airlines and Foreign Airlines U.S. Flights Increased 1.3% in 2012 from 2011 | Bureau of Transportation Statistics

Table 3 lists total passengers. Table 7 lists international passengers. 3-7=domestic

2012 Domestic passengers (000) -

AA/US 112,453
SW 112,234 (assumed all SW pax are domestic since they didn't make the top 10 list on table 7)
DL 95,439
UA 67,534


2012 international passenger (000) -

AA/US 28,120
UA 24,833
DL 21,006

At a legacy, you have the option of flying wide bodies overseas which typically goes senior. Money over QOL. You also have the option of flying small domestic which typically goes junior. QOL over money.
At a single plane operator, choosing between money and QOL is more limited.

I don't work for either SWA or AA/US, but I do fly widebody international trips for another airline. I have to say for me while I love flying airplanes, at this point in the game it's about how much you can make for how little you have to work to make it. With the efficiency of international long haul flying, it's hard to be the pay and QOL on something like the 777.

I was curious about how many days I've worked this year so far (ending with the October bid period). Now, this includes sick calls and sitting a couple of the months on reserve where I never flew (another benefit of the widebody flying, there is no open time.. reserves don't get used very much). To say living in domicile makes reserve easy to swallow is understatement. The sick calls would probably add another 12 days or so to the following total.

Through Oct I've worked 82 days. Averaged 8.2 days a month of work. Anywhere from 76hrs of pay on reserve to well above that as a line holder.

Now is this normal? Maybe not, but it is a real world example of what it's can be like flying international long haul. For the foreseeable future it's an option that doesn't exist at one of the airlines in question.

I'm just glad I get to have as much time at home with my family, raising two toddlers. Busting ass in the 737 where the show times are early and the end times are late wouldn't give me the time off that I have yanking gear in the widebody.

I know domestic pilots who have flown about 6 hours/month on average, and they aren't necessarily senior. Are you senior?

Spicy,

I have got to say, you have absolutely chosen the best frikkin handle of anyone on APC. Clap, clap, clap.

The problem with trying to explain your gig to someone who doesn't have it (I'm also a 777fo) is that until they get to where you and I are...in regard to how they look at flying, layover, time at home and money...and have walked a mile in our shoes...they won't get it.

If there is any question, I agree with everything you said...unqualified truth. You too Timbo. Albei is spot on too.

For the OP, IMO if you are at aa/us, you would be making a mistake to leave. Nothing against SW that I haven't already written in that other thread.