I would think that those considering UPS and Fedex also value the A plan and see a very nice 2nd year pay rate. Delta and UAL will retire 50% of their pilots in the next 10 years, UPS will retire that much in about 13 years. Delta and UAL are acquiring new airframes, whether or not they are replacements or growth is yet to be determined. UPS has nothing on order, except rumors and NURPS!

But in a previous post on this thread you said nobody leaves UPS for other airlines, yet you were already 'aware' of 3?

They still have quite a bit of time left. Most are waiting to see where they'll sit after the SLI with UsAir/AmWest.

-------Word--------

So guys who are or were about to be furloughed have left, 3 to be precise. And others who have seniority numbers at other carriers MIGHT leave. Okay, thanks for the clarification.

The more precise answer is 5. I can list the initials of all five to you privately if you want. I have a list from years ago that I found when I got home.

And also, one of the 5 was not in danger of furlough.

But you're right, nobody is leaving right now, this very second. But I bet a bunch will go back to American in the future!

To each his own. I think it sukcs here and isn't going to get any better for junior pilots for a long time.

IPA is second to none though.

Give the man a break.....I has to comfort himself with lies to accept his crap schedules on the 757.

What lies have I told?

And besides, my schedules are only crap some of the time!

Below are a few quotes that some of you guys posted in support of this thread.

“Not a perfect place but I like it here. So do most of our brothers and sisters.”

“..and yet, I think it's a good place to be at. Yes, it sounds very contradictory. I'm not saying that because I believe it's a paradise on earth but because most other places are "as good as it gets."

“Will things be as great at the major pax carriers in 5-10 years as they're now? Maybe or maybe not. I bet on not, and it's just a bet. As an additional bonus I truly enjoy the camaraderie here and the really cool people I get to fly with.”

“So in conclusion yes, I do think it's a good place to be at but it could be absolutely great.”

“ The only way to change it is from within. We might succeed in improving this place or we might not.”

“Is UPS perfect? No. But what place is? The job is what you make of it. We have a good pilot group and I enjoy flying with them.”

So, I’m wondering why it is that each of the above posting players feels that things will get better in the future. Other than perpetual optimism, what has your company done, in the past 25 years, to give you that opinion. Discounting the advances that the IPA has negotiated, and I’m sure they are many and valuable, both in $$ as well as in QOL and retirement, why do you feel that way? Do you not realize that you’re fighting with a company whose been fighting with unions since their inception in 1907. Do you really think that you can change the culture “from within?” Seriously, you guys work at a place that pays really, really well, with some great benefits, up to and into retirement, and that about covers it. And, oh, by the way, most airlines have a bunch of really cool people to fly with, because, well, pilots in general are pretty cool.

Seriously, I'm not trying to denigrate UPS, just wondering what makes some guys tick.

Jetjok,

Some of what you quote is someone trying to be happy by talking about their high payrate. Bankers do that on Wallstreet. Our flt ops VP and some past ACPs have done that.

Some of it is recognition that having a "higher" pay rate isn't going to last. American wants to give FOs $200 an hour in 2016.

Some think they can see the future only by looking rearward. I've met many who are steadfast in that mindset. While that can be helpful in predicting how management reacts to events it can't, by itself, predict change.