Seeking serious input from airline pilots. Have been to a couple of job fairs. Thanks.

North of age 40, current 135, >1000 TPIC, college degree, clean record.
So far, no luck with majors. Want to stay in Dallas. Need 121 time.

1. Can I get DFW right away from either company?

2. How long is Envoy hiring process.....Mesa is almost instant.

Envoy Advantage: AA flow, better starting pay
Mesa Advantage: Faster upgrade, Immediate class date

Tough call. I would assume Envoy can get you into class fairly quickly and is more committed to DFW, so Mesa doesn't seem to have any advantage in those respects. Upgrade projections are as fickle as flow-through projections, but I would give Mesa the edge in upgrade. If you're already close to or over 40, at that age you have more of a time concern for being attractive to legacies in the future and the potential for a back-up flow to AA may make Envoy your best bet, but it will take at least 6 years commitment to and likely longer to see if that gamble pays off. Faster 121 PIC time though, opens up more doors then just AA.
Either way, you're rolling the dice. I suppose one consideration is your time frame. At Envoy, it's a minimum of 6 years and probably longer to AA, but Mesa MAY get you quals that get you elsewhere faster. All anyone can do is offer opinions and in the end, it's you who has to decide the best gamble, because either way that's what you'll be doing.

Great first post. I stopped reading at "North of age 40". Go for the upgrade and living in base. I wouldn't chase a flow unless unless I was well under 30. If you aren't prepared to lose at least a decade waiting for a flow that may never happen it just isn't worth it IMO.

I second this post. In my opinion the only pilots who will truly benefit from the flow will be your 20 somethings with no degree or those types with a skeleton in their closet who would otherwise get passed over by the majors.

I'm applying everywhere just to see what happens, but AA is at the bottom of my list of where I'd like to end up. If the flow actually stays in place, I believe you will see a lot of types in class at AA who otherwise wouldn't be qualified to work at the majors.

Can't speak for Mesa, but with Envoy I would assume you can get a class date very quickly. Also you should be able to hold DFW right away.

Mesa has lost some flying to Envoy and will probably lose more before all is said and done.

Companies plan for Envoy is to make it a revolving door and one of the few ways to AA. Currently advertising 2.5 year upgrade and 6 years flow to AA. I've seen the numbers and they do work as long as management is able to execute their plan.

Absolute worst case for Envoy would be reduce fleet to only 40 aircraft which would be ~470 pilots. The expectation would be that we would have roughly 200-250 Capts who would never flow to AA and the FOs would then never upgrade. It would be a very painful process for all the employees to get Envoy to that point. However, once everything is done, a new hire could Expect to never upgrade, their time to flow would be ~18months. This plan is very unlikely at this point.

More then likely Envoy will be 180-200 aircraft with mostly 175s and some 145s. This will result in the 2.5 year upgrade and 6 years to flow. Some of this is dependent upon what PSA and PDT are able to accomplish in the next 4 years. Right now PDT is waiting for their 145 program to be approved and PSA is working through training bubble issues and aspen approval.

It is my understanding that DP wants to reduce the number of airlines providing feed, over time, to AA. Right now there are 9-10. I expect this to be reduced by 5 airlines over the next 6-7 years. I don't have any insight at this time on which ones he is looking at. However he will tolerate whoever can provide the feed with reasonable reliability and the right cost structure.

I do believe that things at Envoy are beginning to turn around, they do have a huge morale problem though. It will take some effort on managements part to make effective inroads on this problem. Much of there plan is solely based on their ability to execute.

Whether they can or not things are slowly moving at Envoy, but the pace is accelerating. I do believe now is a good time to get onboard the train.

Is your 135 experience in passenger operations with an airplane of 9 seats or more?

Better travel benefits with Envoy too, don't really need the PIC anyway if you already have it. Certainly Doesn't hurt to get more but Mesa is one of the worst places to work for in the regional industry. DFW at Envoy is way more stable then Mesa and Envoy is taking back some more of that flying.

Plus training center is there if you live there already. Makes life easy for that 5-6 weeks.

Things slipping at Mesa? Any proof to what you're throwing down or just interweb speculation?

No. Are the number of seats important?