I think some of you missed your calling.....should have gone into Constitutional Law....

Sun Country is flying PIE to PIA right now for us. We flew that route in May.

More like some of us have worked for other airlines and know how contracts get abused when the language in the contract isn't clear cut.

If it was that important to do it right now they would just do it.

Guys I know it's hard to trust this management but I think we are being way to paranoid about this "supposed" loophole. The union's attorney looked into this and our negotiators did as well and I trust those guys when they say we have solid scope. Listen any airline with some nifty lawyers can get around ANY scope if they really wanted to. I just don't believe that it's in Allegiant's interest to do so. This Scope makes it hard for them, and while everyone agrees that the work rules are not great, it's better than being at will employees! Vote this down we are gonna be At Will employees for another couple years most likely and then it's a toss up whether we gain anything else in a new TA, WE WILL NOT GET RELEASED! If you hate this so much, we sign this contract make more money while you continue to network, go to job fairs, and update your apps at all the legacies plus UPS and FEDEX. That's what I'm doing. You are gambling with some serious money by turning this TA away, I'm not wealthy enough to take chances like that. Sorry

I understand what you're saying and I respect your decision. But we are gonna have to live with this for 5+ years. It's not just one part, but the whole deal we have to look at. I could maybe over look a deficiency or two...maybe, but this thing seems riddled with holes and rules that won't improve our QOL like it should. The pay rates won't help with weak work rules, look what happened in the past.

I understand your concerns, but at the very least go to the roadshow and point blank voice your concerns to our union guys and listen to what they say and take that into consideration. I have flown very recently with 2 of the guys and hearing some of the things they said to me about how rigged the process is against us changed my mind in all this.

Right... So doesn't it behoove us to vote yes and have something legal to fall back on? Right now we have nothing. We have no rules whatsoever, right? Didn't the Federal court affirm this? So, if we vote no, what's to prevent the company from starting that second carrier, or lowering our pay and benefits, or doing anything else they want?

Don't you think that while they have grand plans for expansion if we vote yes, that they'll still be happy with the current profit margin and slower expansion if we vote no? Don't you think they'll lower their requirements to include entry level regional pilots and just put the onus on the training department to get the job done?

What does your crystal ball say?

I have been talking to them. All of them and asking them point blank question after question to the point they probably cringe when they see me calling. I will attend the road shows and I fully know how rigged this process is and how rigged it was against us at the end. It still isn't changing my mind that I am going to most likely vote No on this.

I don't have a crystal ball and you make good, valid points. We are faced with either a sh!t sandwich or no sandwich at all. Something legal to fall back on only behooves us if it truly protects us and weak work rules don't leave us really that much better off, especially if the company can shoot them full of holes. As you said the courts already have sided with management and if they do that again against a weakly worded contract, how is this any different? Oh wait, this time we are locked into it for at least 5 years.