Skywest
#1821
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2008
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The Delta Connection Agreements also provide that, beginning with the fifth anniversary of the execution of the agreements (September 8, 2010), Delta has the right to require that certain contractual rates under those agreements shall not exceed the second lowest of all carriers within the Delta Connection program. During the fourth quarter of 2010, SkyWest Airlines and Atlantic Southeast reached an agreement with Delta on contractual rates satisfying the 2010 rate reset provision and the second-lowest rate provision and agreed to rates through December 31, 2015. Delta additionally waived its right to require that the contractual rates payable under the Delta Connection Agreements shall not exceed the second-lowest rates of all carriers within the Delta Connection program through December 31, 2015.
The way I read this (disclaimer: no legal training) on January 1, 2016 the existing agreement ends. SKYW can either match the second lowest rate and continue to be a DAL Connection Carrier, or perhaps negotiate something else. A big part of the contract is the rate. If SKYW can't (or won't) match it, I see the contract as ending. Why would Delta want to pay more?
Richard Anderson, Delta's CEO, is a tough negotiator who doesn't like to pay a nickel more for something than he absolutely has to (and he probably loses a little sleep questioning that last nickel).
Just look at the recent aircraft purchases. A bunch of used MD-90's that Delta is buying for cheap and the Boeing 717's that are coming from SWA at supposedly ridiculously low lease rates. Just last week there was a WSJ article about Delta trying to negotiate the purchase of some new deeply discounted current generation B-737's or A-320's...
#1822
Moderator
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,088
Likes: 0
From: B757/767
This is not true guys. We take a hit on the rates we are paid by DAL if we are not the second lowest but it does not give DAL cause to void the contract. We need to hold on for a couple more years and when guys are flying out the door to mainline our pilot cost will not be as big of an issue as it is right now. I don't doubt mgmt will ask but until we start posting consistent losses there is no reason for us to even consider any cuts.
The SkyWest Airlines Delta Connection Agreement is subject to early termination in various circumstances, including:
• if SkyWest Airlines or Delta commits a material breach of the SkyWest Airlines Delta Connection Agreement, subject to 30-day notice and cure rights;
• if SkyWest Airlines fails to conduct all flight operations and maintain all aircraft under the SkyWest Airlines Delta Connection Agreement in compliance in all material respects with applicable government regulations;
• if SkyWest Airlines fails to satisfy certain performance and safety requirements;
• if, under certain circumstances, Delta has a right to terminate the ExpressJet Delta Connection Agreement;
• if the other party files for bankruptcy, reorganization or similar action (subject to limitations imposed by the U.S. Bankruptcy Code) or if either party makes an assignment for the benefit of creditors; or
• if SkyWest Airlines fails to maintain competitive base rate costs (provided that SkyWest Airlines has the right to adjust its rates prior to any such termination).
The agreement for ExpressJet DCI flying is identical.
Last edited by johnso29; 01-28-2013 at 06:52 PM.
#1823
:-)
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,339
Likes: 0
There is no way to match how cheap Pinnacle is going to be, we will have virtually no overhead when we start using Delta's facilities and IT systems. We basically will only have pilots and FA's and a skeleton crew in management. Every single cent left over goes straight to Delta.
#1824
Banned
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,071
Likes: 0
Now what IF, DAL sells 9E to SKW cheap? Delta doesnt want to put itself on the line owning a regional. My guess is DAL will sell off 9E when out of BK and SKW will negotiate a new rate with the MRJs.
#1825
Prime Minister/Moderator

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 44,895
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From: Engines Turn or People Swim
I again point to the historical perspective...
Look at Eastern, Pan Am, TWA, Western, UsAir, UAL, Delta, NWA. They all took significant pay cuts. The only pilot group I can recall (off the top of my head) that said "no" was American's APA last fall, and they subsequently voted in concessions.
One truism: Pilots talk tough in pilot lounges, they talk tough in the cockpit, they talk tough in hotel vans (and they talk really tough on Internet forums!) but they vote in the privacy of their homes. They look at their mortgage payments, car payments, etc as well as their wives and children and think "I don't like this, but we (I) can get by, and it's better than unemployment". Then they vote "yes".
I was blown away when 85% of the voting Pinnacle pilots voted for their recent concessions knowing that (IIRC) roughly 2/3 will get furloughed. And those were (the) "already underpaid regional pilots" you spoke of.
Is it "fair"? Absolutely not, but "fairness" doesn't matter.
But here's another interesting issue. Regional carriers are having a harder time finding applicants. People considering a career in aviation are seeing the low wages, lousy work rules and sub-optimal quality of life of junior pilots at the regional carriers and deciding that perhaps a career in a different line of work is more appealing. Additionally, some experienced pilots are taking their skill sets overseas for rapid (instant) upgrade and significantly more money.
What happens in a few years if this rumored "pilot shortage" materializes? The regional airlines have agreements with major airlines that they are contractually obligated to fulfill yet they don't have the staffing.
Look at Eastern, Pan Am, TWA, Western, UsAir, UAL, Delta, NWA. They all took significant pay cuts. The only pilot group I can recall (off the top of my head) that said "no" was American's APA last fall, and they subsequently voted in concessions.
One truism: Pilots talk tough in pilot lounges, they talk tough in the cockpit, they talk tough in hotel vans (and they talk really tough on Internet forums!) but they vote in the privacy of their homes. They look at their mortgage payments, car payments, etc as well as their wives and children and think "I don't like this, but we (I) can get by, and it's better than unemployment". Then they vote "yes".
I was blown away when 85% of the voting Pinnacle pilots voted for their recent concessions knowing that (IIRC) roughly 2/3 will get furloughed. And those were (the) "already underpaid regional pilots" you spoke of.
Is it "fair"? Absolutely not, but "fairness" doesn't matter.
But here's another interesting issue. Regional carriers are having a harder time finding applicants. People considering a career in aviation are seeing the low wages, lousy work rules and sub-optimal quality of life of junior pilots at the regional carriers and deciding that perhaps a career in a different line of work is more appealing. Additionally, some experienced pilots are taking their skill sets overseas for rapid (instant) upgrade and significantly more money.
What happens in a few years if this rumored "pilot shortage" materializes? The regional airlines have agreements with major airlines that they are contractually obligated to fulfill yet they don't have the staffing.
Shortage or not, the Sky-Gods are dead...there's no fat left, and precious little meat...nothing left to cut but bone. Airlines (regionals or otherwise) CANNOT pay pilots any less or they won't have any pilots. The only reason people put up with FO pay now is because they are working towards CA pay and/or TPIC to move on. Take away those opportunities and student pilots will dry up (well they already have, but it will get much worse)
Inflation marches on...less than $70K is getting quite painful for a real adult with spouse/kids/responsibilities/hobbies.
The only way a regional could get away with a significant cut right now is if they a very deep bench (ie PCL furloughs) or if majors start hiring gang-busters and it looks like a new-hire could move up and out in 3-5 years.
#1826
Moderator
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,088
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From: B757/767
Nope. Not likely to happen. DAL owning 9E is their way of driving down DCI costs. It's the ultimate whipsaw. Selling 9E to Skywest has little to no benefit.
#1827
Exactly, for the next 7 years at least, Delta has the most efficient DCI carrier on their own books. Not saying thats good, just it is what it is. Longevity will never go above year 12 for ca and year 4 for fo's.
#1829
Moderator
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,088
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From: B757/767
The Pinnacle CRJ900 fleet count will be 81 when the transition is complete. Pinnacle currently operates 57 CRJ900s. But 16 will be removed in BK, and then 40 will be added as the CRJ200s are parked.
Last edited by johnso29; 01-29-2013 at 04:47 AM.
#1830
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,035
Likes: 0
Whoa there!
Why do you think "Delta will need us more than we need them"?
The Edmund Burke quote seems apropos: "Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it".
Look at the industry, and look at how events have unfolded over the past several years. There's a race to the bottom amongst the regional carriers as the mainline airlines are whipsawing one regional against another. The winner being the one willing to fly for less.
SKYW Inc. negotiated a sweetheart deal with Jerry Grinstein (Delta's CEO during bankruptcy) regarding the purchase from DAL of ASA. But there is a reset coming in 2015 and basically (as another poster pointed out) SKYW can't be any more expensive then the second lowest or they can be replaced.
That's why, from a purely business perspective, Delta's purchase of Pinnacle and the corresponding pay cuts/concessions from the Pinnacle pilots was a stroke of genius. It puts tremendous pressure on SKYW to reduce their costs...or get replaced. I strongly suspect one cost they will aggressively try to cut will be pilot compensation.
Do you really think SKYW could go it alone and compete head to head with DAL, AMR, UAL, etc? If you do, I suggest you Google Independence Air. I'll save you the trouble - here's a link to a Wikipedia article:
Independence Air - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Why do you think "Delta will need us more than we need them"?
The Edmund Burke quote seems apropos: "Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it".
Look at the industry, and look at how events have unfolded over the past several years. There's a race to the bottom amongst the regional carriers as the mainline airlines are whipsawing one regional against another. The winner being the one willing to fly for less.
SKYW Inc. negotiated a sweetheart deal with Jerry Grinstein (Delta's CEO during bankruptcy) regarding the purchase from DAL of ASA. But there is a reset coming in 2015 and basically (as another poster pointed out) SKYW can't be any more expensive then the second lowest or they can be replaced.
That's why, from a purely business perspective, Delta's purchase of Pinnacle and the corresponding pay cuts/concessions from the Pinnacle pilots was a stroke of genius. It puts tremendous pressure on SKYW to reduce their costs...or get replaced. I strongly suspect one cost they will aggressively try to cut will be pilot compensation.
Do you really think SKYW could go it alone and compete head to head with DAL, AMR, UAL, etc? If you do, I suggest you Google Independence Air. I'll save you the trouble - here's a link to a Wikipedia article:
Independence Air - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Whoa there yourself. Don't put words in my mouth... Never stated that "SKYW could go it alone and compete head to head w/DAL,AMR,UAL, etc" !
I do think that all the regionals will have a much tougher time filling their cockpits with crews, and those with the worst pay and conditions will probably not find new "victims" without stepping up to the plate and improving said pay and work conditions. I hope/believe the day will come when the regionals will be forced to "compete" for pilots with better pay and working conditions, or they won't be able to attract enough qualified candidates!
This means the ones with the worst pay, benefits, and work rules will be the first to start having operational difficulties due to lack of crews!!
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