HELP! SWA or Current gig?
12-13-2017, 06:40 AM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,116
Originally Posted by SlipKid
This is 100% correct.
The opportunity cost of commuting at SW is astounding.
My unwillingness to commute any more than I absolutely have to has cost me, conservatively, in the neighborhood of 3/4 of a million over the last 22 years, and I've been driving it for the last 16.
The opportunity cost of commuting at SW is astounding.
My unwillingness to commute any more than I absolutely have to has cost me, conservatively, in the neighborhood of 3/4 of a million over the last 22 years, and I've been driving it for the last 16.
Doesnt matter what carrier, its $, time away from family, and early medical issues from the stress.
12-13-2017, 08:01 AM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2017
Posts: 224
Originally Posted by RJSAviator76
One of the benefits of living in base is that you don't have uncompensated days away from home. Not so if you commute given our schedules not being that commuter-friendly. Essentially, if you're an AM'er, you'd fly in the evening before (your day off) and spend the night at a crashpad or hotel. You'd be able to fly home the same day at the end of your trip. Conversely, if you're a PM'er, you might be able to come in the day your trip starts, but there's a good likelihood you'll finish after the last flight has left necessitating a night in the crashpad or hotel room before heading home in the morning (again, your day off).
I'm one of those people who hates being away from home for work and not getting paid for it. Let's take a look at the math with the number of days being gone from home as a commuter vs. living in domicile and picking up work but being gone from home the same number of days as a commuter.
Our average daily guarantee is 6.5 TFP and that's also the minimum if you were to pick up a short premium turn.
So... using a 6.5 TFP figure 4 nights away from home per month spent commuting, I see that as potentially uncompensated 26 TFP in a month. Using Stitches' numbers, those numbers go to 32-34 TFP in a month in uncompensated days/nights away from home. To translate that into dollars:
1st year FO $1800-$2350/month of potentially uncompensated time using only first-year figures. Given that open time for first-year FO's is generally paid at second-year rates, that number goes up to $2600-$3400/month. See the trend?
For topped out captains, that translates to potentially $5850-$7650/month in uncompensated time.
Now mind you, those figures are just TFP figures and do not include retirement/profit share. Estimate another 25% on top of that for retirement and profit sharing numbers.
All I can say is... given our ability to pick up additional flying here and get paid for being away from home, commuting can be an expensive proposition at Southwest.
I'm one of those people who hates being away from home for work and not getting paid for it. Let's take a look at the math with the number of days being gone from home as a commuter vs. living in domicile and picking up work but being gone from home the same number of days as a commuter.
Our average daily guarantee is 6.5 TFP and that's also the minimum if you were to pick up a short premium turn.
So... using a 6.5 TFP figure 4 nights away from home per month spent commuting, I see that as potentially uncompensated 26 TFP in a month. Using Stitches' numbers, those numbers go to 32-34 TFP in a month in uncompensated days/nights away from home. To translate that into dollars:
1st year FO $1800-$2350/month of potentially uncompensated time using only first-year figures. Given that open time for first-year FO's is generally paid at second-year rates, that number goes up to $2600-$3400/month. See the trend?
For topped out captains, that translates to potentially $5850-$7650/month in uncompensated time.
Now mind you, those figures are just TFP figures and do not include retirement/profit share. Estimate another 25% on top of that for retirement and profit sharing numbers.
All I can say is... given our ability to pick up additional flying here and get paid for being away from home, commuting can be an expensive proposition at Southwest.
12-13-2017, 08:03 AM
#53
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,003
Originally Posted by BobZ
Tried explaining these numbers to a 30yr old new hire. My wag over a 30yr career its at least $1M. Not counting compounding.
Doesnt matter what carrier, its $, time away from family, and early medical issues from the stress.
Doesnt matter what carrier, its $, time away from family, and early medical issues from the stress.
12-13-2017, 08:21 AM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,445
HELP! SWA or Current gig?
I will present the flip side of the coin on commuting.
If you have a relatively easy commute (I commute okc to HOU with the option of a fairly easy commute to two other bases) then commuting really isn’t that bad and it actually presents some opportunities if you are willing to take advantage of them.
Look at the frequency and times between MHT and BWI. I am guessing they are fairly good. This is the first key. The second key is looking at the lines in a base and the start and end times. If there are a fair number of earlyish ending PMs that get in prior to the last flight out then those are commutable trips. I fly almost exclusively commutable PMs in Houston. That may not be the case in BWI as I have seen some eye watering late arrivals there recently as we have stretched the schedule out. So worst case you may have to either catch a few winks in the lounge (BWIs lounge actually has a really nice crew rest set up) or crash in a hotel or pad for a few hours and catch the early one back home. You really aren’t missing that much time at home. Those with difficult commutes (low frequency and or a lot of commuters) have a completely different set of circumstances. I would not wish a difficult commute on anyone I like.
Commuting allows you to live where you want, give your family stability, have extended family close by, and many times enjoy a low cost and high quality of life that you won’t get in a base. Those are huge benefits.
I commute, generally fly between 13-16 days a month, and average somewhere around 140tfp. This isn’t without effort and I wasn’t able to do it without a couple of years of seniority, but that’s where I am right now. Living in a city with nonstop flights on multiple carriers to 8/10 SWA bases is a big part of that success. It isn’t all sunshine and roses, last month the open time market took a dump and I worked way harder than I am accustomed to and credited less. That’s fine, my family budgets for the lean times, not the 160tfp months.
What it all boils down to is commuting isn’t all bad. It just depends a lot on you and on your commute. I have a feeling that MHT to BWI is pretty good, but that is just a wag based on the frequency between those cities and the amount and diversity of flying I see out of BWI.
If you have a relatively easy commute (I commute okc to HOU with the option of a fairly easy commute to two other bases) then commuting really isn’t that bad and it actually presents some opportunities if you are willing to take advantage of them.
Look at the frequency and times between MHT and BWI. I am guessing they are fairly good. This is the first key. The second key is looking at the lines in a base and the start and end times. If there are a fair number of earlyish ending PMs that get in prior to the last flight out then those are commutable trips. I fly almost exclusively commutable PMs in Houston. That may not be the case in BWI as I have seen some eye watering late arrivals there recently as we have stretched the schedule out. So worst case you may have to either catch a few winks in the lounge (BWIs lounge actually has a really nice crew rest set up) or crash in a hotel or pad for a few hours and catch the early one back home. You really aren’t missing that much time at home. Those with difficult commutes (low frequency and or a lot of commuters) have a completely different set of circumstances. I would not wish a difficult commute on anyone I like.
Commuting allows you to live where you want, give your family stability, have extended family close by, and many times enjoy a low cost and high quality of life that you won’t get in a base. Those are huge benefits.
I commute, generally fly between 13-16 days a month, and average somewhere around 140tfp. This isn’t without effort and I wasn’t able to do it without a couple of years of seniority, but that’s where I am right now. Living in a city with nonstop flights on multiple carriers to 8/10 SWA bases is a big part of that success. It isn’t all sunshine and roses, last month the open time market took a dump and I worked way harder than I am accustomed to and credited less. That’s fine, my family budgets for the lean times, not the 160tfp months.
What it all boils down to is commuting isn’t all bad. It just depends a lot on you and on your commute. I have a feeling that MHT to BWI is pretty good, but that is just a wag based on the frequency between those cities and the amount and diversity of flying I see out of BWI.
12-13-2017, 09:05 AM
#55
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 825
For what it's worth, I have an easy, one-leg commute that I can do on company aircraft, coming in the same day as a PM trip. Honestly, I've felt zero stress from it. Sometimes I have to ride in the cockpit, sometimes in the FA jumpseat, but normally I get a good seat with no stress.
The extra time away from home, though, is just unsustainable, not to mention the hotel expense and the lost opportunity for picking up easy trips. For those reasons, I'm moving to base within my first year. Our trips just aren't generally commuter-friendly, and I knew that I'd eventually be moving to a domicile when I accepted the job. It's doable, but far from ideal with our schedules.
The extra time away from home, though, is just unsustainable, not to mention the hotel expense and the lost opportunity for picking up easy trips. For those reasons, I'm moving to base within my first year. Our trips just aren't generally commuter-friendly, and I knew that I'd eventually be moving to a domicile when I accepted the job. It's doable, but far from ideal with our schedules.
12-13-2017, 09:50 AM
#56
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 53
I live in SoCal and have one of the easiest commutes but it’s starting to wear on me. Been commuting almost 4 years but love where I live, family is happy but I’m getting ready for a move. Top of the list: Henderson NV. Short drive to work and no state tax. My heart says stay my mind says move. Gonna hold out for maybe 2 more years and see if the LAX base happens if not I’m out!
That’s coming from a guy with a super easy commute compared to most others. Mostly commutable PMs and opportunity for extra flying with DH to SoCal.
That’s coming from a guy with a super easy commute compared to most others. Mostly commutable PMs and opportunity for extra flying with DH to SoCal.
12-13-2017, 12:01 PM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Position: Left
Posts: 1,807
Originally Posted by BB818
Hello All,
I have a class date at SWA but my employer just offered me 300K to stay, plus a defined benefit program comparable to the majors. I am a 44 -year old G-650 captain with an excellent resume (Fortune 100, Former major airline, former military,). I could have 20+ years at SWA but I'm gonna have to start all over (not crazy about that).
Thank you!
I have a class date at SWA but my employer just offered me 300K to stay, plus a defined benefit program comparable to the majors. I am a 44 -year old G-650 captain with an excellent resume (Fortune 100, Former major airline, former military,). I could have 20+ years at SWA but I'm gonna have to start all over (not crazy about that).
- How long until I can make 200K as a commuter?
- How realistic is it to pick up extra time as a commuter?
- I think the upgrade time will come down in coming years. Thoughts?
- Thoughts and opinions on my situation greatly appreciated.
Thank you!
SWA will work you hard, but the job security is tremendous. No corporate job is a sure thing anymore. Good luck!!!
12-13-2017, 02:16 PM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2011
Posts: 374
Originally Posted by David Puddy
Advice I've heard from a recruiter: never accept a counter offer. They know you are looking around.
Unless the $300k offer was on the table before your job offer at Swa AND it applies to everyone in your flight department with comparable skills/responsibilities I'd plan on using your current compensation for comparison purposes.
You will have a big target on your back if you're the highest paid and your company knows your leverage with Swa has an expiration date.
12-13-2017, 05:27 PM
#60
Banned
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 163
Originally Posted by BB818
Hello All,
I have a class date at SWA but my employer just offered me 300K to stay, plus a defined benefit program comparable to the majors. I am a 44 -year old G-650 captain with an excellent resume (Fortune 100, Former major airline, former military,). I could have 20+ years at SWA but I'm gonna have to start all over (not crazy about that).
Thank you!
I have a class date at SWA but my employer just offered me 300K to stay, plus a defined benefit program comparable to the majors. I am a 44 -year old G-650 captain with an excellent resume (Fortune 100, Former major airline, former military,). I could have 20+ years at SWA but I'm gonna have to start all over (not crazy about that).
- How long until I can make 200K as a commuter?
- How realistic is it to pick up extra time as a commuter?
- I think the upgrade time will come down in coming years. Thoughts?
- Thoughts and opinions on my situation greatly appreciated.
Thank you!
My guess is if you ask them to put pen to paper on a 10-20 year deal you will get your answer. After this set of questions is asked you will show up in class at SWA.
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