Commuting on SWA
02-09-2020, 03:35 AM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,094
Originally Posted by flyguy81
What’s ridiculous is thinking we are even remotely similar to Fedex or UPS. A -800 isn’t a 757. So why the hell would I count them? UPS has 1 rate so yeah they’ll make more because they have more bigger planes. I don’t fly a 747 and don’t expect to be paid the same as someone who does. Our 1-12yr rates aren’t far off from Fedex 757 rates but they’ll kick our ass with overrides, pension, etc. It’s apples and oranges.
So apples to apples the company needs to pay enough to be considered by the current pool of available pilots.
02-09-2020, 06:51 AM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,843
Originally Posted by Profane Kahuna
A more holistic view is that airlines compete to hire pilots. A competitive pilot in today’s environment can be hired anywhere (AA, UAL, DAL, UPS, FEDEX).
So apples to apples the company needs to pay enough to be considered by the current pool of available pilots.
So apples to apples the company needs to pay enough to be considered by the current pool of available pilots.
I want to fix the problems we have with our current CBA for current SWAPA. It’s not my job to negotiate for what people not on the list might want. That’s on management to recruit and retain.
02-09-2020, 07:04 AM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,094
Originally Posted by flyguy81
Precisely. And every airline will have bases and things that the others don’t that will be a draw to candidates. Best we can do is negotiate the best contract we can that we’re happy working under and if people leave for other airlines so be it. People are going to go to the first place that offers a class date and leave if they’re not happy. No amount of money is going to change that.
I want to fix the problems we have with our current CBA for current SWAPA. It’s not my job to negotiate for what people not on the list might want. That’s on management to recruit and retain.
I want to fix the problems we have with our current CBA for current SWAPA. It’s not my job to negotiate for what people not on the list might want. That’s on management to recruit and retain.
You said you were willing to accept less compensation than pilots at other airlines because you are on smaller equipment.
I’m saying that the top tier airlines are all competing to hire from the same pilot pool.....therefore it’s apples to apples and the company has to pay the same to be competitive in hiring.
02-09-2020, 11:09 AM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,843
Originally Posted by Profane Kahuna
I think you missed the point.
You said you were willing to accept less compensation than pilots at other airlines because you are on smaller equipment.
I’m saying that the top tier airlines are all competing to hire from the same pilot pool.....therefore it’s apples to apples and the company has to pay the same to be competitive in hiring.
You said you were willing to accept less compensation than pilots at other airlines because you are on smaller equipment.
I’m saying that the top tier airlines are all competing to hire from the same pilot pool.....therefore it’s apples to apples and the company has to pay the same to be competitive in hiring.
02-09-2020, 11:30 AM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,094
Originally Posted by flyguy81
Sure...Pay the same for the same airplane. I have no illusions of ever being paid Delta A350 pay. I'll certainly take it if offered, but I think you're crazy if you think that's a possibility. You're not going to get 747 pay here. It's just not going to happen. If you want that, go to UPS. I'll take pay equal to the big 3 for 737 (and any similar sized aircraft), while fixing our LTD, reserve and other issues.
02-09-2020, 12:01 PM
#36
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2019
Posts: 73
Originally Posted by flyguy81
Sure...Pay the same for the same airplane. I have no illusions of ever being paid Delta A350 pay. I'll certainly take it if offered, but I think you're crazy if you think that's a possibility. You're not going to get 747 pay here. It's just not going to happen. If you want that, go to UPS. I'll take pay equal to the big 3 for 737 (and any similar sized aircraft), while fixing our LTD, reserve and other issues.
By the way, lots of people here used to say, "You're not going to get a B-Fund here. It's just not going to happen." They'd explain, "Herb said he'd shut the place down before he gave us a B-Fund." Then, they'd cap it off with something like, "If you need a B-Fund, go somewhere else."
02-09-2020, 12:20 PM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,843
Originally Posted by FleetSnarl
Says Russell McCrady and Carl Kuwitzky, "Noted. And thank you for the data points."
By the way, lots of people here used to say, "You're not going to get a B-Fund here. It's just not going to happen." They'd explain, "Herb said he'd shut the place down before he gave us a B-Fund." Then, they'd cap it off with something like, "If you need a B-Fund, go somewhere else."
By the way, lots of people here used to say, "You're not going to get a B-Fund here. It's just not going to happen." They'd explain, "Herb said he'd shut the place down before he gave us a B-Fund." Then, they'd cap it off with something like, "If you need a B-Fund, go somewhere else."
I’m realistic. Sure I’d take $350/trip and laugh all the way to the bank. Based on what I’ve read from the union, that won’t be anywhere close to our ask.
If you seriously think you’re going to get WB pay out of the next TA, you’re going to be disappointed. Either that or I want whatever it is you’re smoking.
02-09-2020, 12:25 PM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
Posts: 6,605
There’s no excuse for the most profitable airline to not pay industry leading narrowbody rates and have the best work rules. Period.
That said. We’ll get what we negotiate and not a penny more.
Ready to walk if need be......
That said. We’ll get what we negotiate and not a penny more.
Ready to walk if need be......
02-09-2020, 07:32 PM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,256
Originally Posted by flyguy81
I’m realistic. Sure I’d take $350/trip and laugh all the way to the bank. Based on what I’ve read from the union, that won’t be anywhere close to our ask.
If you seriously think you’re going to get WB pay out of the next TA, you’re going to be disappointed. Either that or I want whatever it is you’re smoking.
If you seriously think you’re going to get WB pay out of the next TA, you’re going to be disappointed. Either that or I want whatever it is you’re smoking.
Management reps read these forums. Just ask the Spirit pilots who were quoted on APC by their company in legal filings against Spirit's union back in 2017.
02-09-2020, 09:52 PM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,843
Originally Posted by Lewbronski
I think the point is don't unnecessarily give the company negotiating team data points that allow them to construct a 51% solution. Don't tell them what you'd happily settle for.
Management reps read these forums. Just ask the Spirit pilots who were quoted on APC by their company in legal filings against Spirit's union back in 2017.
Management reps read these forums. Just ask the Spirit pilots who were quoted on APC by their company in legal filings against Spirit's union back in 2017.
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