Profane Kahuna

Yet you’ve already broadcast that you are willing to accept less than UPS or legacy widebody rates and that you are willing to ridicule anyone who sets the initial bar that high.

So I’ll ask again, are you arguing FOR the company?

flyguy81

yeah. I’m willing to accept less than WB rates because we won’t be asking for those rates. We’ll be asking for industry leading NB rates which are a long ways off from WB rates.

You’re asking for a limo to pick you up from work and the driver to feed you filet mignon. I’m asking for paid parking. Which is more ridiculous?

You’re not getting WB pay. We didn’t ask for it in 2016. We won’t be asking for it in 2020.

flyguy81

SWAPA said we could double our rates and the company would still be profitable. They also said we won’t be asking for that because they want the company to succeed. The ‘Flight Plan’ is rooted in reality and is realistic so that the company remains strong.

The only reason rate asks weren’t published is because it’s fluid due to the big 3 negotiating. Once they sign we’ll have a better idea of what to ask for and newsflash: it’ll likely be the highest NB rate + $1 converted to tfp.

I’ll gladly accept more. I’ve been around long enough to know what’s going to happen.

hoover

are you saying rates should be based on how much money the company makes or profitability rather than base on equipment?

Profane Kahuna

What’s ridiculous is that you are willing to enter negotiations while setting the bar low, telegraphing to the company what you will vote yes for, and disparage others who want to set the ask high.

Why are you arguing FOR the company?

flyguy81

CA FO
SWA Now/HR $282 $197
UAL/AA 757 $293 $200
DL 757 $296 $202
UPS $327 $232
Fedex 757 $280 $203
Fedex WB $325 $230

Using current rates converted to hourly we aren’t too far off the top rates of the big 3 using their top 757 rates. Their rates will go up. By how much is anyone’s guess. Will it exceed UPS or Fedex WB pay? Maybe, maybe not. Depends where those companies’ NC’s put the majority of their gains.

AA needs better soft pay. Delta wants more into their B-fund. United wants whatever the other two get.

SWAPA wants LTD, and the loopholes in the CBA to be fixed by doing a complete rewrite.

Can you get everything? Sure. Will you? No, because in the history of airline negotiations no union has ever gotten 100% of their asks. And it’s not going to start now.

To simply equal UPS/Fedex we’d need to increase CA pay by $40/tfp and FO pay by $30. That’s a snap up of 15%. TA ‘16 only had the large snap up on the front end due to the length of negotiations. Should this round go as long, UPS and FedEx will be well into their next negotiations where their pay should/will go up more.

I think we’ll see a TA sooner than later due to the environment we’re in. We won’t know rate asks til the end of negotiating or until the big 3 get a AIP.

You can think whatever you want. I really don’t care. I’ll vote yes on what my union thinks is the best deal assuming all my bullet points are covered. You can do whatever the hell you want. I’m done arguing about it.

Profane Kahuna

I’m saying drop the 108 TFP, narrow body only, ignore FedEx/UPS mindset and recognize that the environment has changed.

Every airline is competing for newhires. The other top tier airlines are all offering more career earnings and better extras (paid parking, disability, etc). The company can either step up and offer competitive compensation or it will be left behind and struggle to hire quality people.

The metric is “how much does a barrel of pilot cost”.... not well I only fly a 737 I should roll over and accept less. Especially when SWA pilots are the most productive in the industry.

Profane Kahuna

I respectfully disagree with your assessment.

hoover

I see your point. Definitely cant say we all average 108tfp anymore. That was uncool IMO.
I agree that all companies are competing for the same pilot and they should not get to include size and destinations as compensation anymore. Most people dont care what they fly or where to. Give me the money and benefits I want and I'll go to those places on my vacation.

at6d

And now with hardly any schedule flexibility, QOL is deteriorating.

The days of ELITT are over until the MAX and supporting schedule come back. Or will it?

Flying a month with a member of the ToolBag club? You’re stuck.

Hell. Maybe I should have bid a blank line.