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Old 02-03-2020, 11:07 AM   #21  
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Anecdotally, our 737-800s hold more passengers than the 757s we had when I was at USAir. So the 757 itself is a reasonable analog to the -800, at least to me.

That said, it is asinine that in a group of 10,000 pilots there arenít SOME percentage of commutable lines. We are a union negotiating for the collective well being, not just those who live in domicile. I donít know what that % should be... maybe 15% or 20% and still subject to the trip rig, but yes. I believe we should have some commutable trips for the 46% of our pilots who commute. There are commutable trips out there today, mixed into AM and PM lines. They just need to be aggregated and bundled into lines of similar trips. This isnít rocket science but it is the right thing to do for the union, not just the individual.


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Old 02-03-2020, 01:45 PM   #22  
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Whatís ridiculous is thinking we are even remotely similar to Fedex or UPS. A -800 isnít a 757. So why the hell would I count them? UPS has 1 rate so yeah theyíll make more because they have more bigger planes. I donít fly a 747 and donít expect to be paid the same as someone who does. Our 1-12yr rates arenít far off from Fedex 757 rates but theyíll kick our ass with overrides, pension, etc. Itís apples and oranges.

Yes, we hadnít voted. Neither had Delta. They were at a impasse until we secured a AIP. Funny how that works.

I trust the NC and they said there was nothing left to gain by voting it down and waiting. We got all the gains we could at the time. If weíre smart weíll negotiate a me-too also so if mgt moves things quickly we donít end up #4 again.
We are so totally screwed. Again.
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Old 02-03-2020, 02:46 PM   #23  
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We are so totally screwed. Again.

Get over yourself. In 15 years in the industry Iíve been in CBA negotiations for 9 of them. I wonít vote yes for a quick buck.
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Old 02-03-2020, 02:48 PM   #24  
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There are commutable trips out there today, mixed into AM and PM lines. They just need to be aggregated and bundled into lines of similar trips.
Agreed. I hate the PM-turned-AM trips (I just did one because of a re-route); they exhaust me and aren't nearly as relaxing to me. So while they'd be a commuter's dream, I wouldn't touch them. Having whole lines of them (to avoid) would benefit those of us who live in base and like to maintain their circadian rhythms, too.
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Old 02-03-2020, 02:57 PM   #25  
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Originally Posted by ZapBrannigan View Post
Anecdotally, our 737-800s hold more passengers than the 757s we had when I was at USAir. So the 757 itself is a reasonable analog to the -800, at least to me.

That said, it is asinine that in a group of 10,000 pilots there arenít SOME percentage of commutable lines. We are a union negotiating for the collective well being, not just those who live in domicile. I donít know what that % should be... maybe 15% or 20% and still subject to the trip rig, but yes. I believe we should have some commutable trips for the 46% of our pilots who commute. There are commutable trips out there today, mixed into AM and PM lines. They just need to be aggregated and bundled into lines of similar trips. This isnít rocket science but it is the right thing to do for the union, not just the individual.


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The 757 at US Air wasnít all coach was it? Spirit/Frontier cram like 230 into a A-321 while AA only puts 187 in theirs. 176 or so in their 75ís with a 3 class configuration.

In a all-coach configuration a 757-200 can carry 235 or so. A 757-300 can carry up to 295. 189 is the max capacity of a 737-800.

If computable trips are productive as non-commutable I donít care either way. Whatever the majority wants....
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Old 02-03-2020, 03:15 PM   #26  
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Get over yourself. In 15 years in the industry Iíve been in CBA negotiations for 9 of them. I wonít vote yes for a quick buck.
Well, thanks for that. Unfortunately, 85% of your co workers will vote YES! for less than a quick buck. It is what it is.
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Old 02-03-2020, 06:12 PM   #27  
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Well, thanks for that. Unfortunately, 85% of your co workers will vote YES! for less than a quick buck. It is what it is.

Wasnít the value of the contract somewhere in the $1.6B range? Thatís a lot of quick bucks.

Would senior people be bidding reserve under the old rules? Would your 401k be where it is without the B-fund? For its many faults, there were vast improvements. Based on what I read of the ďFlight PlanĒ, if voted in...many of the issues would be fixed (disability, rsv pay, etc). I honestly had no clue our disability issues were that bad since nobody said much about it in 2015-16. Now that I know....Iíll vote accordingly if improvements fail to make it into a TA.
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Old 02-04-2020, 05:31 AM   #28  
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I commuted for my 22 years at SWA and avoided pure PMs and PM turn AMs whenever my seniority allowed because I routinely woke up at 6 AM East Coast time so West Coast PMs were a killer. The night in the hotel/ crashpad was worth it not to do any PMs. Each person is different with their own preferences.
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Old 02-04-2020, 05:49 AM   #29  
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Wasnít the value of the contract somewhere in the $1.6B range? Thatís a lot of quick bucks.
Yup, and even with that, we are lagging the industry, which illustrates just how far behind we were/are.

Quote:
Would senior people be bidding reserve under the old rules? Would your 401k be where it is without the B-fund? For its many faults, there were vast improvements.
And yet, we're still dealing with sub regional LTD, and a myriad of other nagging things from the '94 contract and prior.


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Based on what I read of the ďFlight PlanĒ, if voted in...many of the issues would be fixed (disability, rsv pay, etc). I honestly had no clue our disability issues were that bad since nobody said much about it in 2015-16. Now that I know....Iíll vote accordingly if improvements fail to make it into a TA.
Me too. Then again, I was all in for the "platform" last time, and we all saw how that turned out.
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Old 02-05-2020, 12:50 AM   #30  
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A PNW commuter here...not OAK/LAS...I find that there are mostly commuter lines available, but rarely TOTAL commutable lines. However, because of ELITT (MAX grounding notwithstanding), I can usually get a line that is 0-1 hotel nights per month. Lately, I have been preferring AMs because the hotel cost is pretty low and I really prefer getting home to going in the night before.

Right now, all the commutable trips are min credit with long midwest/east coast overnights. One leg on day one, one or two legs on day 3 or 4. Not terrible, but not optimal.

YMMV
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