SWA: "3 years left of pilot shortage"
06-04-2023, 05:00 PM
#32
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Joined APC: Oct 2015
Position: Gear slinger
Posts: 2,899
Originally Posted by SonicFlyer
Says they have 40 airplanes they can't staff right now:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/south...210507880.html
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/south...210507880.html
Does that mean 3 years left until pilots get a competitive contract so they can staff all the aircraft?
06-04-2023, 05:24 PM
#33
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Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,445
Originally Posted by Lewbronski
It sounds like what you're worth is whatever FP2020 says you're worth. Over OTOF right now, there's a discussion about hotel language already being settled. Several folks chimed in and commented that the hotel language better include separate hotels in the language.
One of the MCO reps jumped in to explain that, in a nutshell, polling didn't support separate hotels. This is pretty much exactly the sort of dynamic within SWAPA that I talked about in a post back on 5/12, especially point "B."
Sounds like SWAPA is looking at C2020 as being bound by the mandate created by a document that is at least a couple of years obselete at this point, given the rapidly changing nature of the pilot market.
One of the MCO reps jumped in to explain that, in a nutshell, polling didn't support separate hotels. This is pretty much exactly the sort of dynamic within SWAPA that I talked about in a post back on 5/12, especially point "B."
Sounds like SWAPA is looking at C2020 as being bound by the mandate created by a document that is at least a couple of years obselete at this point, given the rapidly changing nature of the pilot market.
They do a SEP process and create their asks. They AIP sections of the contract. Suddenly membership (especially the forum regulars) get a bug up their butt about something that suddenly sounds super cool or that the other kids got, but SWAPA has never polled membership about it. Should they reopen that section and extend negotiations?
Hotel language is AIP'd. It sounds like we aren't going to be separated from the FAs but that the company and the NC agreed to a set of standards that are better than what we currently have. If it isn't good enough or if that is your line in the sand, vote no. That's what my plans are.
We empower the NC through the SEP process. They can go to the company and say "75 percent of our pilots want a headshot of Matt Damon on their nightstand in their hotel room". That's a number backed up by a survey. It isn't a feeling or what somebody is griping about on the union forum. If we vote down the first TA, they'll SEP again.
06-04-2023, 05:41 PM
#35
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2017
Posts: 3,596
Originally Posted by CA1900
I spent a fortune on training and worked for years getting to this point in my career. I'm not about to take less than I'm worth just to subsidize the public's desire for cheap air travel.
06-04-2023, 06:24 PM
#37
Furloughed Again?!
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: Boeing 737
Posts: 4,796
Originally Posted by SonicFlyer
Not to sit right seat it didn't.
Despite what Ben Baldanza seems to think, 1500 hours don’t need to be spent in the pattern doing touch and goes. There’s flight instructing (multi engine, instrument, and CFI instructors don’t spend all their time in the pattern), pipeline patrol, traffic, fish and game, sightseeing, banner towing, traffic watch, forestry, VFR 135, medical transport… despite everyone’s desire to go right to an A320 there still have to be pilots willing to fly Caravans and Metros to feed the freighters. There have to be pilots willing to fly EAS in Cessna 402s. If everyone goes to the airlines at 300 hours, who is left to be a CFI… CFII…MEI? Much less to train the next generation of CFIs?
Nah, they created their own problem. Lowering the minimums isn’t the solution. Student loans, grants, STEM schools, and partnerships with universities is the answer. It’s just not the CHEAP answer that airline managers, congress, and the traveling public (by way of low airfares) really want.
06-04-2023, 06:45 PM
#38
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Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,256
Originally Posted by e6bpilot
I see what you are saying here, but what exactly do you expect them to do?
They do a SEP process and create their asks. They AIP sections of the contract. Suddenly membership (especially the forum regulars) get a bug up their butt about something that suddenly sounds super cool or that the other kids got, but SWAPA has never polled membership about it. Should they reopen that section and extend negotiations?
Hotel language is AIP'd. It sounds like we aren't going to be separated from the FAs but that the company and the NC agreed to a set of standards that are better than what we currently have. If it isn't good enough or if that is your line in the sand, vote no. That's what my plans are.
We empower the NC through the SEP process. They can go to the company and say "75 percent of our pilots want a headshot of Matt Damon on their nightstand in their hotel room". That's a number backed up by a survey. It isn't a feeling or what somebody is griping about on the union forum. If we vote down the first TA, they'll SEP again.
They do a SEP process and create their asks. They AIP sections of the contract. Suddenly membership (especially the forum regulars) get a bug up their butt about something that suddenly sounds super cool or that the other kids got, but SWAPA has never polled membership about it. Should they reopen that section and extend negotiations?
Hotel language is AIP'd. It sounds like we aren't going to be separated from the FAs but that the company and the NC agreed to a set of standards that are better than what we currently have. If it isn't good enough or if that is your line in the sand, vote no. That's what my plans are.
We empower the NC through the SEP process. They can go to the company and say "75 percent of our pilots want a headshot of Matt Damon on their nightstand in their hotel room". That's a number backed up by a survey. It isn't a feeling or what somebody is griping about on the union forum. If we vote down the first TA, they'll SEP again.
The problem with that approach right now is that the pilot market is moving and has moved so fast since the SEP process that birthed FP2020 several years ago was completed that FP2020 is now outdated.
What SWAPA could have done or still do is look at how much the pilot market has moved, conduct a new “nimble” round or rounds of SEP to establish updated demands based more closely on what the pilot market allows now, in 2023 versus what it allowed several years ago. None of that would be “unreasonable” or “bad faith bargaining” under the RLA.
06-04-2023, 07:46 PM
#39
gets time off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,165
Originally Posted by Lewbronski
Like I explained, the process works the way I described a few weeks ago, which is essentially what you said another way: SWAPA sees the SEP results as their mandate. They're not going to go past their mandate because that's all they feel like the membership empowered them to go after.
The problem with that approach right now is that the pilot market is moving and has moved so fast since the SEP process that birthed FP2020 several years ago was completed that FP2020 is now outdated.
What SWAPA could have done or still do is look at how much the pilot market has moved, conduct a new “nimble” round or rounds of SEP to establish updated demands based more closely on what the pilot market allows now, in 2023 versus what it allowed several years ago. None of that would be “unreasonable” or “bad faith bargaining” under the RLA.
The problem with that approach right now is that the pilot market is moving and has moved so fast since the SEP process that birthed FP2020 several years ago was completed that FP2020 is now outdated.
What SWAPA could have done or still do is look at how much the pilot market has moved, conduct a new “nimble” round or rounds of SEP to establish updated demands based more closely on what the pilot market allows now, in 2023 versus what it allowed several years ago. None of that would be “unreasonable” or “bad faith bargaining” under the RLA.
06-04-2023, 08:59 PM
#40
Gets Weekend Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,617
Mulcher, have you thought about applying to Delta and escaping this? You can be awarded captain before you're done with initial training and ergo done with probation. You're literally trading away some seniority for industry-leading everything, including pay right off the bat.
https://www.airlineapps.com/jobs/det...=First-Officer
Life is too short to be this miserable.
https://www.airlineapps.com/jobs/det...=First-Officer
Life is too short to be this miserable.
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